Standing?

[Royal Lady]

They largely complied with the regulations. Meanwhile, the police and tango's were happy to allow City fans to stand all match, as I have commented on another thread last week.

[PieEater]

They ejected a few people who chose to point out the home fans were standing when they were asked to sit down. One guy near me was ejected for shouting big nose (ok more than once) at a home fan.

[Volvicanus]

WHile I agree that it seems unfair, I would ask anyone that complains what exactly they expect the club to do when a situation like today arises when pretty much every single one of them is standing. Seriously - what do you want them to do? ANd don't just say that you want them to enforce the rule - how exactly do you envisage this happening?

Right. Here you go. There was a very sizeable presence of police at today's game. Instead of paying the Keystone Kops good money to point their poxy camera in the faces of home supporters, how about getting them to help enforce the ground regulations?

I am sure that the Safety Officer is able to direct PA announcements specifically at the South Stand. That being the case, make some announcements warning the visiting supporters that they are breaking the regulations and that if they continue they will be ejected. Then, if necessary, send in the tangos and TVP. I'm pretty sure a few high profile ejections will send out a strong message to the rest, most of whom won't be relishing a fight/being arrested.

I'm sure some will argue that this will spark trouble but is that really what the rule of law in this country is about? Threaten to cause trouble and we will let you do what you like?!

Out of interest PieEater, did the police state at City lead to a riot from the Reading fans or did they largely comply with the regulations?

As you just said - this would most likely cause a lot more trouble than there ever would be to begin with. And maybe I'm wrong here, but surely the police have absolutely no mandate to enforce what is a organisational rule and certainly not a law. They would never take such confrontational steps to enforce something that is not law. So that leaves PA announcements - which I am pretty sure would be entirely ineffective, perhaps even having an opposite effect.

Essentially what I am saying here is that if crowds, esp. away crowds decide to stand en masse at a game, there is no means of enforcing the rule at the time of the game itself. The only reasonable action to attempt to do so is imposing certain penalties on the club at a later time. I am under the assumption that this is what the FA is doing, though how effectively I have no idea. So IMO, the argument of home fans of 'You're letting them do it' is a pretty childishly stupid one.

[Royal Lady]

So if Man City home fans are allowed to stand, will the FA punish City? I don't think so.

[STAR Liaison]

Once again I would request that STAR ask the club how many Villa fans were 'quietly ejected when they went into the concourse' for persistently standing.

Once again I am pretty confident that the club will tell STAR that they aren't able/prepared to give them that information.

Why the secrecy?

Could it be that it they were to reveal the figure, it would show their explanation as to how they handle the problem to be the lie that some of us suspect?

I have been promised the information and STAR are also going to attend the next Safety Advisory Group so we will defintiely have more insight soon.

[STAR Liaison]

So if Man City home fans are allowed to stand, will the FA punish City? I don't think so.

This is why we want to go to the Safety Advisory Group as we understand it depends very much on the local council's attitude to the application of the rules not the FA. The FA sets the rules but their application is down to the FLA and the council.

For instance there has been high profile attempts at OT to make people stand but that is a different council to COM.

[Sharpy]

howcome villa were allowed to stand the WHOLE game?!!

[RoyalBlue]

WHile I agree that it seems unfair, I would ask anyone that complains what exactly they expect the club to do when a situation like today arises when pretty much every single one of them is standing. Seriously - what do you want them to do? ANd don't just say that you want them to enforce the rule - how exactly do you envisage this happening?

Right. Here you go. There was a very sizeable presence of police at today's game. Instead of paying the Keystone Kops good money to point their poxy camera in the faces of home supporters, how about getting them to help enforce the ground regulations?

I am sure that the Safety Officer is able to direct PA announcements specifically at the South Stand. That being the case, make some announcements warning the visiting supporters that they are breaking the regulations and that if they continue they will be ejected. Then, if necessary, send in the tangos and TVP. I'm pretty sure a few high profile ejections will send out a strong message to the rest, most of whom won't be relishing a fight/being arrested.

I'm sure some will argue that this will spark trouble but is that really what the rule of law in this country is about? Threaten to cause trouble and we will let you do what you like?!

Out of interest PieEater, did the police state at City lead to a riot from the Reading fans or did they largely comply with the regulations?

As you just said - this would most likely cause a lot more trouble than there ever would be to begin with. And maybe I'm wrong here, but surely the police have absolutely no mandate to enforce what is a organisational rule and certainly not a law. They would never take such confrontational steps to enforce something that is not law. So that leaves PA announcements - which I am pretty sure would be entirely ineffective, perhaps even having an opposite effect.

The police have absolutely massive powers. Haven't you realised just how much can come under the umbrella of charges such as obstruction, breach of the peace, threatening behaviour etc? Failing that, send in the tangos and then the police have plenty of powers to deal with any disorder that might arise.

I think the suggestion that taking a stronger stance will lead to significant crowd trouble is scaremongering and a convenient excuse for RFC's uneven application of critical safety regulations. I ask again, did the strong approach adopted by Man City lead to violence/crowd trouble from the travelling Royals?

If Reading Borough Council are really to blame then I hope STAR ask them to explain the double standards being adopted when it comes to the treatment of home v away supporters.

[Skin]

So if Man City home fans are allowed to stand, will the FA punish City? I don't think so.

This is why we want to go to the Safety Advisory Group as we understand it depends very much on the local council's attitude to the application of the rules not the FA. The FA sets the rules but their application is down to the FLA and the council.

For instance there has been high profile attempts at OT to make people stand but that is a different council to COM.

So this is all about how the council are interpreting the rules? That would indicate there must be room for some 'fine tuning'? ..or common sense as we commoners like to call it.

Please ask the club to directly question the degree of enforcement they are expected to undertake against standing when it will never be consistent with home and away fans. It would also be nice to hear them empathise with their fans here and ackowledge that they don't want to throw their fans out for standing, when at the same time the whole away end is standing.
Who deals with the local council on this issue and who represents the fans when they do? How are we being represented? Is it STAR?

[Volvicanus]

But isn't all of this just missing the point entirely?

I find it very strange that the attitude of someone wanting to stand generally (but who is made to sit down) then sees someone else standing and wants them to be punished for it. So I suppose you can go to the council, if that who it is that decides these things, and complain about the lack of enforcement of the rule, but it does seem to suggest then that you are behind the rule.

When - if you think it's a crap rule and that's it's essentially unenforceable, you should join one of the stand up organisations, write to the club, write to the FA and all possible organisations concerned. Oh - and applaud the fact that some others (any others- even away fans) can get away with it.

[Scarface]

howcome villa were allowed to stand the WHOLE game?!!

I know it was a joke, there wasn't any attempts to get them to sit down. There is no doubt the club treat away fans better than home fans and it's totally wrong.

[Skin]

applaud the fact that some others (any others- even away fans) can get away with it.

I do. I also applaud the fact that no fans are injured as a result of standing. Maybe there's a big clue in there somewhere about the credibility of the rule.

[Hoop Blah]

Once again I would request that STAR ask the club how many Villa fans were 'quietly ejected when they went into the concourse' for persistently standing.

Once again I am pretty confident that the club will tell STAR that they aren't able/prepared to give them that information.

Why the secrecy?

Could it be that it they were to reveal the figure, it would show their explanation as to how they handle the problem to be the lie that some of us suspect?

I have been promised the information and STAR are also going to attend the next Safety Advisory Group so we will defintiely have more insight soon.

Will you try and get them to prove the figures they quote to you or will you just accept them as correct as you did the away ticket points stat raised on the Arsenal tickets thread?

The enforcement of the no standing rule is a joke. The club should be trying to look after it's fans, sorry consumers (!!), yet at every turn they seem to be doing all they can make it less and less of an enjoyable day out (apart from Mr Coppell's efforts with the team that is).

[Jerry St Clair]

But isn't all of this just missing the point entirely?

Partially.

I completely agree that we should applaud away fans who stand and "get away with it". I wish I could.

But I'm also interested to know how the club justify their completely inconsistent application of the no standing rule (given that it's, seemingly, such a death-defying activity).