Shawcross tackle

[Dirk Gently]

Perhaps it always seems to happen to Arsenal because their style is to move the ball around quickly, so defenders are much more likely to be late.

I was talking this afternnon to a Stoke supporter who knows Shawcross well who says that there's absolutley no way there was any malice in it, and that he genuinely is the nicest person there is - to them this is a bit like it'd have been for us if Murts had broken someone's leg.

[ZacNaloen]

To say that Shawcross is late is rubbish, he's just won the ball and is then going to clear it when Ramsey comes in and nicks it away. It all happened so quick there is nothing Shawcross could have done to prevent it apart from not going for the ball which would have people questioning his desire.

Unfortunate accident, and I hope Ramsey makes a full recovery.

Er the tackle was late which is why he caught the player. Your comment is feeble although I repeat I don't think in any way Shawcross went out to intentionally hurt the player.

That assumes he was even aware he was making a tackle. He went from winning the ball and thinking "cross-field pass" to breaking Ramseys leg in literally a second.

Whilst technically yes he was late, to say he was late in the challenge is a complete misread of the situation. The reason there is so much power behind his swing is that he thinks he's making a cross-field pass, Ramsey dances in from his peripheral as he's pulling the trigger by which point it's too late.

Shame the replay is down, but if you watch it you can see that Ramsey & Shawcross have got their eyes 100% on the ball, I don't think Shawcross even saw Ramsey until he made contact with his leg.

As I said unfortunate accident, but "late challenge" is harsh. If it's even a foul.

[Ian Royal]

Either way it looks pretty doubtful Shawcross could have taken much more part in the game. His obvious distress means for me he'd have to be subbed by the manager, not to mention the (small) possibility of some "afters" from unhappy Arsenal players.

Feel for Shawcross, but much more for Ramsey who will have to live with the effects of this for a lot longer than they're likely to really affect Shawcross.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Wenger makes himself look like a bit of an arse.

Really, that's first then!

Total accident, it sadly happens from time to time. Cue the next few days of "poor old Arsenal everyone's got it in for us" from management, players and supporters.

[Royal Rother]

Well, even though I disagree with Wenger on this, if it results in a siege mentality that carries them through to the title I for one would be delighted.

[TBM]

You can understand Wengers reactions. Can you imagine if you're watching your son play park football and some lad goes flying in and breaks your boys leg - you too would be upset and angry and looking for someone to blame. I'm sure once he saw the replay he realised it was an accident. He was simply sticking up for one of his young stars.

[RG30]

Good article from Martin Samuel http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... hance.html

[Negative_Jeff]

I`m after Martin Samuel`s job. I put that piece into two short paragraphs.

[Dirk Gently]

You can understand Wengers reactions. Can you imagine if you're watching your son play park football and some lad goes flying in and breaks your boys leg - you too would be upset and angry and looking for someone to blame. I'm sure once he saw the replay he realised it was an accident. He was simply sticking up for one of his young stars.

Surely if he wasn't sure he could have said something like "I did not see ze incident" instead of being quite so unequivocal?

[Alan Partridge]

It's one of those things that happens in football sadly. Ever since the first few matches of this sport was played, people have got injuries, and in cases leg breaks.

It is why footballers and top level sportsman are paid so handsomly, for the risks they take when entering their chosen field of play. Be it a football field, a boxing ring or a race track. By putting their careers or lives on the line for a living they are paid what some would say is obscene money. If Ramsay doesn't play ever again, he's a 19 year old out of work and quite possibly hardly any qualifications. There is some light at the end of the tunnell for him but he's years behind other people at his age in terms of education or working experience.

Anyone that has played the game at any level can tell when it's a sorry accident or if the player has gone to 'do him', I am in no doubt whatsoever both Shawcross and Taylor's challengs were genuine attempts and simply the injury is down to a horrible accident.

Now we are in a complete pampering nany state these days where anything deemed as remotely unfair should be crticised and punished to the highest degree. What Samuels is indicating there is we shouldn't be allowed to force the issue on Arsneal, almost adovcating a no tackle policy. If teams such as Stoke or 95% of the PRemier League try and take Arsenal on with barely any ocntact and sheer passing and moving, every single one of them will get taken to the cleaners. You could see it after the incident, the Stoke players were frightened to then make a tackle and Arsenal walked rings round them scoring twice in a couple of minutes.

It's been a phrase passed down the years 'get into em' 'get in their faces' and thank God it has. If you want to watch non contact sport watch BAsketball, where the worst they get is a floor burn or a bad finger.

This is football and one of the arts of football is physical play and tackling. Arts that are bing taken away by the nany's that now run this game. This is why some tackles are bad and mistimed because tackling isn't being taught as well anymore.

I wish Ramsay all the very best in his recovery, he's a young boy and he's obviously in good shape so he should recover from this. Whereas I wish fat stupid idiots like Samuels whose job it is to criticse people when he hasn't got a sodding clue what he's talking about I find the main thing in bad taste.

[Victor Meldrew]

Well, even though I disagree with Wenger on this, if it results in a siege mentality that carries them through to the title I for one would be delighted.

What is so amazing is where Arsenal now are.
As far as the "experts" are concerned Arsenal need:-
A keeper
A centre-back to replace Gallas
A midfield ball-winner
More options up front.
Also Walcott and Van Persie have hardly played and now another broken leg.

Wenger may not be gracious but none of the top managers are-just imagine the reaction of Fergie or Benitez would be to this kind of incident.
For all their supposed faults Arsenal have reduced their debt,have the best stadium in the country and are just one win away from top spot.

I'm not an Arsenal fan but respect most things about the club especially their attempts to play the beautiful game and I think it would be hilarious if they won the title in a season when so few can see anything wrong with Chelsea and Man Utd who the pundits keep on saying have the Premiership between them.

As for Shawcross,he can have a cry and is still fit enough to join up with the England squad so I have no pity for him but I do feel for young Ramsey-nobody's fault and the luck of the draw I'm afraid.

[Negative_Jeff]

I wish Ramsay all the very best in his recovery, he's a young boy and he's obviously in good shape so he should recover from this. Whereas I wish fat stupid idiots like Samuels whose job it is to criticse people when he hasn't got a sodding clue what he's talking about I find the main thing in bad taste.

I,m in the Samuel camp AP (see page 3), so I take the above brickbats on the chin apart from the obesity bit! I doubt Samuels is advocating a non contact sport, just explaining why Shawcross didn`t use his loaf in this instance.

[Alan Partridge]

I wish Ramsay all the very best in his recovery, he's a young boy and he's obviously in good shape so he should recover from this. Whereas I wish fat stupid idiots like Samuels whose job it is to criticse people when he hasn't got a sodding clue what he's talking about I find the main thing in bad taste.

I,m in the Samuel camp AP (see page 3), so I take the above brickbats on the chin apart from the obesity bit! I doubt Samuels is advocating a non contact sport, just explaining why Shawcross didn`t use his loaf in this instance.

It was there to be one and he caught the bloke, it was a big shame he got injured but there was no intent from Shawcross to hurt Ramsay. Win the ball, firmly but fairly. Which he didn't on that occasion, whihc happens in every match. Just a shame the boy got injured because of it.

NJ > Samuels.

[Maguire]

Wenger may not be gracious but none of the top managers are-just imagine the reaction of Fergie or Benitez would be to this kind of incident.
For all their supposed faults Arsenal have reduced their debt,have the best stadium in the country and are just one win away from top spot.

I'm not an Arsenal fan but respect most things about the club especially their attempts to play the beautiful game and I think it would be hilarious if they won the title in a season when so few can see anything wrong with Chelsea and Man Utd who the pundits keep on saying have the Premiership between them

Well said VR. I'm not an Arsenal fan either but I'd love to see them win the league. Those next 5 games are all eminently winnable so it's kind of there for them really.

Shawcross - I do feel sorry for him (not as sorry as I do for Ramsey, obviously) and I thought Wenger might have been a bit more understated in his reaction after what he said (and then had to retract) about Martin Taylor.

[Ian Royal]

A passage of play that results in an injury does not automatically mean there is blame to be assigned.

Ramsey went for a ball Shawcross was trying to thump. He got there first and he paid the price in a horrible accident. Ramsey was the one doing the tackling, or in this case more intercepting. If someone is taking a swing at the ball, they are unlikely to be able to do much about it if you step into the way.

If you want the game played at the sort of lightning pace it is these days, then there are going to be more accidental injuries as reaction times simply aren't quick enough and momentum plays a bigger part.

Just like the Hunt vs Cech incident, neither player did anything wrong. There was just a nasty collision and accident. Martin Samuel can get lost as far as I'm concerned.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

Samuels often stuffs his fat face in the Arsenal canteen.

When he's not hanging out with Frank or down The Academy Of Football.

Maybe Shawcross should take him out for dinner.

[FiNeRaIn]

Arsenal just remind me of Celtic, the mentality of " why us, everyone's against us" bla bla bla. Its cringe worth and I hate them.

Completely accidental tackle and basically Arsenal are saying they don't want anyone to contest a 50/50 ball with them in future, the tackle was " out of control". Bollox, It wasn't even a Red card. Always looking to blame or point the finger and the most ungracious club in the country in victory or defeat, I hope they win fvck all this season although I do wish ramsay the best and want to hear his comments on the tackle.

[Ian Royal]

Arsenal just remind me of Celtic, the mentality of " why us, everyone's against us" bla bla bla. Its cringe worth and I hate them.

Completely accidental tackle and basically Arsenal are saying they don't want anyone to contest a 50/50 ball with them in future, the tackle was " out of control". Bollox, It wasn't even a Red card. Always looking to blame or point the finger and the most ungracious club in the country in victory or defeat, I hope they win fvck all this season although I do with ramsay the best and want to hear his comments on the tackle.

Red? I didn't even think it was a foul!

[79Royal]

Watch the clip again. The reason Shawcross is late is because Bendtner tugs him back, otherwise he's favourite to win that ball.

Can't wish Ramsey a speedier recovery, quality player.

[On High]

Our old 'friend' Oliver Holt was on Five Live yesterday lunchtime and managed to get SHunt's "assault" on Cech into the discussion on the Shawcross\Ramsey incident. The man is obsessed!