Ghana v Uruguay

[Archie's penalty]

Because he was punished for it. It's only cheating when you are not punished for something. So for example Drogba getting a yellow for diving isn't cheating, it's attempting to cheat. Voeller's dive in the 1990 world cup final is cheating as he got the penalty that won the world cup from it.

If no-one had spotted Suarez's handball it would have been cheating, but someone did notice it, the penalty was given, he was sent off and Gyan missed the penalty.

For example is this cheating?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBrFlDpQudY

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Because he was punished for it. It's only cheating when you are not punished for something. So for example Drogba getting a yellow for diving isn't cheating, it's attempting to cheat. Voeller's dive in the 1990 world cup final is cheating as he got the penalty that won the world cup from it.

If no-one had spotted Suarez's handball it would have been cheating, but someone did notice it, the penalty was given, he was sent off and Gyan missed the penalty.

For example is this cheating?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBrFlDpQudY

Cheating is cheating regardless of whether you are punished or not.

Yes, that clips shows cheating.

[Archie's penalty]

But if the rules of the game allow it then how is it cheating?

[Flyingkiwi]

By that logic AP, someone in prison is not a criminal because he got caught.

Suarez broke the rules (In the same situation, yes, most of us would have) and he knew what was coming. It was DELIBERATE. In my view, it doesn't really matter if you get caught or not. If you deliberately break the rules to give your team/try to give your team an unfair advantage, your punishment SHOULD be harsher (not a fan of the penalty goal/try scenario as it leaves too much up in the air). When Roy Keane deliberately kicked Alf Inge Haaland he was sent off. Does that mean that he is NOT a psychotic, cheating thug? After all; he was punished for it.

[Flyingkiwi]

But if the rules of the game allow it then how is it cheating?

Errr...

I'm pretty sure there's a rule in football that DOESN'T allow you to handle the ball on the line (unless you're the keeper) and I'm also pretty sure that is the rule that the ref actted on when he reached for the red card.

[Archie's penalty]

Ok you got me there you guys.

I just don't think he was a cheating bastard as he was punished for what he did. But maybe he was, I'm a bit tired and I'm getting confused

[Arch]

Ok you got me there you guys.

I just don't think he was a cheating bastard as he was punished for what he did. But maybe he was, I'm a bit tired and I'm getting confused

I somewhat sympathize. 'Cheating' has a strongly negative moral connotation in our culture and like you I'm not inclined to take an overly moralistic stance towards Suarez. The fact remains though that he and Uruguay prospered by avoiding certain elimination through deliberately violating the laws of the game. I think you can feel bad for Ghana without having to hate Uruguay.

[Archie's penalty]

Thanks for backing me up Arch.

I hope he doesn't get hated for this. If Gyan had scored nothing would have been said about it. You can't fault him for doing what he did and you can't fault him for celebrating like he did.

I think Uruguay might beat Holland and then Suarez will come in for the final. No matter what he has become incredibly famous/infamous in one night. This is what the World Cup is all about - incredibly exciting and controversial stuff.

[Flyingkiwi]

I, for one, am not being overly moralistic about what Suarez did. As I've said, I probably would have done the same thing in his situation. However, without doubt, he cheated! Moreover, he DELIBERATELY cheated and his team not only didn't conceed a goal that would have won the game for Ghana as a direct consequence of his actions, Uruguay went on to win the penalty shoot out as a result of that DELIBERATE act and because that act was pre-concieved, I believe that his punishment should be greater than the standard 1 match ban: that's all. Ban him for 2 matches, I say. That would finish his World Cup. If Uruguay make the final, I don't think many African people will take very kindly to him playing. No doubt, in Uruguay, he will be treated as a hero (as I'm sure any Englishman that did the same would be).

When Leonardo elbowed Tab Ramos in the US World Cup, he got slapped with (from memory) something like a 7 match ban which finished his World Cup and was justice being SEEN to be done. I think the same sort of thing should happen here just to make it clear that deliberate actions come with consequences (Once again, I want to stress that I'm NOT being moralistic here)

[Barry the bird boggler]

Yeah, yeah and if an England player had done the same thing you'd all be on here saying he was a cheat wouldn't you

As it happens Suarez'll miss the semi final v the Dutch which will hardly help Uruguay's cause.

[PEARCEY]

I think a lot of us just wanted to see Ghana go through so Uruguay are seen as the bad guys. Uruguay have played well in this tournament and Forlan and Suarez up front have been a revelation. Good luck to them but I would much rather have seen Ghana go through instead.

[PieEater]

I'd go for the 3 match ban because of the seriousness of the offence and the fact that he celebrated his cheating (when the pen was missed) like they'd won the game. He was ecstatic his cheating had prospered, something has to be done about that.

[Kitson12]

I'd go for the 3 match ban because of the seriousness of the offence and the fact that he celebrated his cheating (when the pen was missed) like they'd won the game. He was ecstatic his cheating had prospered, something has to be done about that.

^This.

[Kitsondinho]

Suarez is now a hero back home. If Uruguay go on to win the World Cup, which they really could, he will be the reason that they got there. Just like Diego in '86, he has sealed his place in the story of this World Cup.....with a stunning goal in the last round....and now this.........

As for what I would think of an England player who did it......I'd love the fact we went through and strangely lose my moral compass when reviewing the situation!!

[Flyingkiwi]

I wonder what Diego Maradona will have to say about the incident?

Or Thierry Henry?

[PEARCEY]

^Or Michael Owen for that matter (and bloody Joe Jordan). No country is immune. They all cheat when it serves best interests.

[Flyingkiwi]

I mean that I'm sure Diego Maradona WILL comment on the incident, being involved in this World Cup and being that Argentina and Uruguay have such a rivallry. Any half-competent journo will bring it up in the pre-match interview before tonights game (particularly the British ones) and can you imagine what will happen if Argentina get knocked out tonight (Oh! Please God, let it be so) and Uruguay progress? There'll be a war!

Furthermore, I heard a rumour that the reason the French coach refused to shake hands with his South African (I think) counterpart was because he was complaining that one of his players didn't deserve the red card he had just been given to which the other had replied that really the French didn't deserve to be there at all.

[Kitsondinho]

I think there is a real chance of a repeat of the 1930 final this year. Argentina v Uruguay would be a violent cheatfest of a final......80 years on the 1930 final is still controversial in both countries....what with 2 different balls being used, Argie ball in the 1st half, Uruguaian one in 2nd......claims of all sorts of cheating on both sides.....a repeat 80 years on may not make for good football, but would be explosive!

[John Madejski's Wallet]

If you deliberately break the rules to give your team/try to give your team an unfair advantage, your punishment SHOULD be harsher (not a fan of the penalty goal/try scenario as it leaves too much up in the air). When Roy Keane deliberately kicked Alf Inge Haaland he was sent off. Does that mean that he is NOT a psychotic, cheating thug? After all; he was punished for it.

Where do you draw the line? A tugback on someone running through on goal? Maybe a tugback on someone starting a breakaway? Maybe impeding a keeper/defender when you are attacking a corner??

Cheating goes on every minute of every game in every league of every country. If it didnt we wouldn't need referees!

Yes this is outrageous, but you often here commentators saying someone should "have taken a red for the team". In fact recently in a prem match I distinclty remember one of the people on MoTD pretty much congratulating someone for doing that for deliberately tripping someone running at goal, knowing they'd get sent off

[Flyingkiwi]

If you deliberately break the rules to give your team/try to give your team an unfair advantage, your punishment SHOULD be harsher (not a fan of the penalty goal/try scenario as it leaves too much up in the air). When Roy Keane deliberately kicked Alf Inge Haaland he was sent off. Does that mean that he is NOT a psychotic, cheating thug? After all; he was punished for it.

Where do you draw the line? A tugback on someone running through on goal? Maybe a tugback on someone starting a breakaway? Maybe impeding a keeper/defender when you are attacking a corner??

Cheating goes on every minute of every game in every league of every country. If it didnt we wouldn't need referees!

Yes this is outrageous, but you often here commentators saying someone should "have taken a red for the team". In fact recently in a prem match I distinclty remember one of the people on MoTD pretty much congratulating someone for doing that for deliberately tripping someone running at goal, knowing they'd get sent off

I agree, and where that line is drawn is always going to be something of a subjective issue (much as it is in penalty try situations in Rugby) all I'm saying is the deliberate acts of cheating SHOULD be punished more severely than spontanious acts of foul play.

Look at the two reds that were handed out last night, one to a Brazilian, one to a Uruguayan. One was for a handball, one for stamping on an opponent and, if that's all you know about the incidents, you would have to say that the Brazilian one was much worse. BUT, looking at the videos; one is a deliberate act to stop a goal and the other, to me, really only looks like two people getting into a big tangle and the Robben rolling around on the floor like a big jessie. To my mind, the deliberate act deserves harsher punishment. I'm sure you're right and Saurez took the red for his team but that doesn't excuse the act; it should recieve a harsher punishment.