The Summer clearout / Coming in thread. Updated 27/8

[Wycombe Royal]

IF IF IF IF IF IF. Who cares. No one knows what would have happened. This is all opinions using selected stats that have been manipulated to make a point. Someone else can, and has, used the stats to show a different view on it.

You are not right, you are not wrong. It is just an opinion. THe only way you could be proved right is if two teams had been run in parallel against the same opposition at the same time to see which got the better results. As parallel worlds do not exist then this is not possible.

So just shut up and stop being so bloody condescending to anyone who dares to question your opinion.

Good night.

[URZZ]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 69,00.html

Could it have been us who bidded?

[SCIAG]

Given that Sigurdsson regularly took penalties ahead of Long, and Long regularly took them ahead of Harte, it would be reasonable to assume that Sigurdsson would score at least as many penalties as Long and Harte (though many on here consider Harte a superior taker to Long, which undermines the argument somewhat...). So we don't suddenly "lose" those ten goals. They can, to all intents and purposes, be ignored.

Look, it is terribly simple. A large proportion of Gylfi's goals were penalties. If he took the same number and scored them (missing one) as per 2009-10 IT WILL BE AT THE EXPENSE OF HARTE OR LONG SCORING THEM. Adding Gylfi does NOT add 20 open-play goals. It adds, X penalties and Y free-kicks and A FEW open-play goals.

Every penalty scored by Gylfi is either one less goal for Long or one less goal for Harte. It's that simple. We had 15 or 16 penalties last season. How many do you expect us to get?

It's all a complete irrelevance though. For the purposes of "are we better or worse with Sigurdsson?", we can put "penalties scored" in a little box somewhere else.

Lose Gylfi and you lose 20 goals and 10 assists in a blink.

TWADDLE. Gylfi's "replacement" was, effectively, Noel Hunt who got 10 goals and 7 assists (not a full season) That leaves 10 goals and 3 assists to account for.

7 of Gyfli's goals were penalties. Long scored 7 penalties. Leaving 3 assists. Now check how many more assists Long got...


We did NOT lose any goals. We got MORE goals.

We IMPROVED the defence. We conceded a lot less goals.

Why is that so hard to understand?

That's a direct response to your comment about dropping Hunt meaning "losing 10 goals".
How on earth does saying "Long scored 7 penalties" leave three assists unaccounted for? Surely it still leaves the 10 goals?

The only point you made there that might stand up is "free kicks", as Harte is better at them than Gylfi. However, Gylfi is still a very, very good free kick taker. Maybe he'd have scored a couple less, but maybe the ball would have fallen for him. I don't think it would have, and we certainly replaced Gylfi's free kick expertise by signing Harte.

That's barely relevant. All I am saying is Hunt replaced the open-play goals and most of the assists
and Long/Harte scored MORE penalties between them than Gylfi scored. Harte is at least as good at
Gylfi at free kicks, so we didn't lose out there either. Of COURSE Gylfi is a fabulous, exciting player
but in 451. In the 442 we re-found after he left, we fully replaced his goals, assist, pensm, free-kicks
AND stiffened the midfield defensively.

Er, in case you hadn't noticed, I essentially agreed with you there, though I pointed out that we have no way of telling how good Sigurdsson would have done this season from free kicks.

Harte and Long having scored more penalties than Sigurdsson just shows that we were awarded more, or that one of those was usually on the pitch when they were awarded (I think Hunt had one this season, with Howard, Long and Church all taking last season). Harte and Long also missed more penalties that Sigurdsson. It's just not a valid use of statistics to say "Harte and Long scored more penalties", because the sample sizes aren't the same. Peter Mate scored more goals per game than Long does, Hammond has kept more clean sheets for us than Alex McCarthy...

The FACTS are we replaced all his goals and then some.

Ah, factssssssss.

We didn't, that's an opinion. We have no idea how many goals Gylfi would have scored this season. Just like nobody expected Long to score 16 goals this season (plus penalties).

No it is a fact. I said REPLACED, because the list had talked about losing 20 goals (as per previous season). Long score 16 more, Hunt score 8 more, Harte score 11.
That's 35 which is a bigger number than 20

It's a bad use of statistics. Rasiak scored 10 less, Church scored 6 less (?), you have to take away Bertrand's goal... it's just ridiculous. Bertrand scored from open play, Harte didn't... oh no, we didn't replace Bertrand!

We weren't too good at STOPPING goals when Gylfi played. We were much better defensively when he was out.

I do not dispute that he is far more talented than any player in last year's team,
but it's still a fact that we concede more, win less with him in the side.

Again, correlation is not equal to causation. You can't just overlook the fact that a) we had Rodgers b) we didn't have Zurab or Griffin and c) we were poor overall for half a season and spent the second half recovering.

Where do I say it's causation? I'm just posting facts.
We had better results in 2009-10 when he didn't play UNDER Rodgers.
We had better results in 2009-10 when he didn't play under McDermot
We had better results this season 4 games v 42 games under McDermot

You implied causation. You said "we sold Gylfi and we conceded less goals". That implies causation. It's flawed logic, especially in such a complex situation where "logic" barely applies.

Gylfi+Leigertwood+Harte+Zurab= top two, IMHO.

I don't agree.

We would have lost Hunt's goals (he wouldn't have played)
We would have lost Hunt's assists (he wouldn't have played)
With the focus on always feeding Gylfi it's very likely Long would have scored less goals (excl pens)

We would have gained Gylfi's goals and assists, and he's a better goalscorer and more creative than Hunt. It would have given us a tactical dimension we were lacking for a long portion of last season, and would have forced teams to press more, creating space for Long.

It's not as if Hunt wouldn't have got a minute all season, is it? He would have made subsitute appearances, and doubtless would have scored, given his excellent goal-to-minute ratio

and big PS. Had we kept Gylfi it's 99% likely we would NOT have got Harte, as he was brought
in for his free-kick ability. Thus we would have had to try to somehow improve Williams....

Case rested

I know. As a matter of fact, I think we wouldn't have done as well as we have with Gylfi. Where we differ is that you think this is because Gylfi is less productive than Hunt and was somehow crippling the side, whereas I think it was because Harte, Zurab and Legs strengthened weak areas and we wouldn't have made those transfers if Gylfi had stayed. I was objecting to your assertion that Sigurdsson was intrinsically negative. Despite Long's massive improvement over the course of the season, you think it impossible that Sigurdsson could have improved on his goal tally (only about half of which was in a confident side who were winning matches, and he didn't play every match by any means)?

Can you see an ambitious German club bidding £6.6m for Hunt any time soon? Even in this crazy market? Is Hunt acknowledged as one of the best players in the league? I like him, I really do (though I don't think he's the same player he was pre-injury), but he isn't in Sigurdsson's class, and you can't try and claim he is by speculating about Sigurdsson's potential productivity (and our defensive record since Sigurdsson left, which I know McDermott has been giving Hunt a lot of praise for) if he'd played with players like Leigertwood who he never played with, or behind Long when Long became so much better at sticking chances away...

[Royal Rother]

Good grief.

[muzza]

Well a friend of mine who is working at Henley Festival saw Sir John and got a nice £50 tip, be nice to see him put some money out there on players, i think he will this summer aswell

Ohh he was hand in hand with Cilla btw

[stickywhisky]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 40,00.html

Why not? Experienced CB with a point to prove?

[chilipepper91]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11674_7024040,00.html

Why not? Experienced CB with a point to prove?

Will want far more money than we'd want to offer - someone else posted on here that he was on about £20k/w at Stoke. Also, just no.

[Hiram K Hackenbacker]

I agree

[Big Ern]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11674_7024040,00.html

Why not? Experienced CB with a point to prove?

I have great memories of Sonks, but has not been the same player since he did his knee in against Sheff Utd while playing for us. I don't he is good enough

Then again..cheap...so that the RFC style

[Ferris]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11674_7024040,00.html

Why not? Experienced CB with a point to prove?

He's a liability

[Alan Partridge]

The days of Superman have long gone, he's more Christopher Reeve in his final days state than of Superman II fame.

[No Hoops]

Jobi Signs new contract until 2014

Good News

[Ferris]

Very happy with that.

I <3 Jobi.

[Ian Royal]

Jobi Signs new contract until 2014

Good News

BEST DAY EVER!!!!

We fleece Leicester for that cock end and sign up our most influencial creative player (IMO) on a new contract.

[Ferris]

Jobi Signs new contract until 2014

Good News

BEST DAY EVER!!!!

We fleece Leicester for that cock end and sign up our most influencial creative player (IMO) on a new contract.

You can say that again Ian

[Elm Park Old Boy]

Good news mounting up actually. HRK, leigertwood and Jobi all signed up. I was warming to Mills, as he seemed to be cutting out some of the petulance from his game (it can come back now), but we couldn't turn down £5m for him, and can replace well enough for less than that (and in the process get a captain who isn't the most likely player to blow a gasket and do something silly.

[Snowball]

Agreed. I prefer the solidity and predictabilty and temperament of a Pearce.

Question is, who plays alongside him?

[Agent Balti]

Agreed. I prefer the solidity and predictabilty and temperament of a Pearce.

Question is, who plays alongside him?

Sean Morrison, at the moment.

[stickywhisky]

OS says ' the club and Brian McDermott continue to actively seek a new central defender, as part of our summer transfer policy'

[No Hoops]

In

Mikel leigertwood........£1m(est)
Brynjar Gunnarsson......1yr extension
Hal Robson-Kanu..... 3 Yr Contract
Jobi McAnuff............3 yr Contract New Captain
Bongani Khumalo.......Season long loan from Spurs

Contracts offered to
Long
Kebe

Out
Scott Davies (R)..........FREE
Julian Kelly (R)............FREE
Ivar Ingimarsson (EoC)
David Mooney (EoC)
James Rowe (EoC)
Danny Joyce (EoC)
A Bell Baggie (EoC)
Erik Opsahl (EooC)
Zurab Khizanishvili end of loan to Kayserispo in Turkey
Matt Mills (Leicester £5m)

Rumoured Exits
Shane Long.....who knows
Adam Federici... West Ham

New deals for

Walcott
Mills
Gage
Hector
Locke
McHugh
Murphy
MacDonald
Arnold
Goddard
Losasso
Ugwu

Updated with Bongani Khumalo