BFTG - Blackburn

[Hendo]

Poor 1st half yesterday (which is not a radical opinion) worse than Swansea for me.

Can you please explain this? We were 1-0 down after 2 minutes and 2-0 at half time? Defensively in the first half we were fantastic last night.

Firstly it was 3-0 at half time v Swansea but yeah sure.

Apart from the goal, we had nothing in the first half yesterday, it was all Blackburn and they got into some dangerous positions, better teams would've punished us. We could hardly string 3 passes together. Gave the ball away so often.

Swansea we didn't play badly first half, they had 3 shots, 3 goals, sometimes that happens.

Scoreline doesn't always indicate how well you play.

[Nameless]

It's usually a set price that they have to accept as a bid if it's made. Yes they can accept other offers and no the player doesn't have to go.

So we agree a price of £5 million for Oliviera, he scores 10 goals to keep,us up, we ring them up to get their bank details to make payment and not only find that Stoke have had a bid of £5 million and 50p accepted but Oliviera has decided he’d rather go and play in Spain so woukdn’t Have joined anyway.
Presumably we could up our offer and tell Oliviera we REALLY like him but the ‘option’ seems very weak.

They would have to accept both bids and we would have a better chance due to the fact he is with us on loan. We get to make him feel important. It's a smart system. It also means if he scores 20 goals they can't ask us for 10 million.

Why can’t they ?
If someone else offers more but we want him we’d have to up our bid !

[NewCorkSeth]

So we agree a price of £5 million for Oliviera, he scores 10 goals to keep,us up, we ring them up to get their bank details to make payment and not only find that Stoke have had a bid of £5 million and 50p accepted but Oliviera has decided he’d rather go and play in Spain so woukdn’t Have joined anyway.
Presumably we could up our offer and tell Oliviera we REALLY like him but the ‘option’ seems very weak.

They would have to accept both bids and we would have a better chance due to the fact he is with us on loan. We get to make him feel important. It's a smart system. It also means if he scores 20 goals they can't ask us for 10 million.

Why can’t they ?
If someone else offers more but we want him we’d have to up our bid !

Because as part of the loan agreement we have a guaranteed bid. We have the option to buy him for a set price. The set price cannot change. That's the whole point of these agreements.

[NewCorkSeth]

John Swift was statistically the best player in the championship this week according to whoscored. Seth 1 - 0 Plebs

[Hound]

John Swift was statistically the best player in the championship this week according to whoscored. Seth 1 - 0 Plebs

But he strolled around a bit, so he's shit

In fairness, I don't always trust these stats based appraisals. But he got an assist, a goal, and suspect a decent amount of passes and percentage. If he had scored 10 this season, people would overlook the weak aspects of his game. He massively needs to improve on the goals scored

[Greatwesternline]

They would have to accept both bids and we would have a better chance due to the fact he is with us on loan. We get to make him feel important. It's a smart system. It also means if he scores 20 goals they can't ask us for 10 million.

Why can’t they ?
If someone else offers more but we want him we’d have to up our bid !

Because as part of the loan agreement we have a guaranteed bid. We have the option to buy him for a set price. The set price cannot change. That's the whole point of these agreements.

If another team comes in with a much bigger bid Norwich would buy us out of our option if there was such a thing. Contracts are only as valid as the willingness of Reading to enforce.

[Old Man Andrews]

John Swift should be sold in the summer whilst he is still worth something, too lightweight and too unfit. We need to invest the money in a healthy, strong, hungry young comabtive midfielder to slot in alongside Rinomhota.

[NewCorkSeth]

John Swift was statistically the best player in the championship this week according to whoscored. Seth 1 - 0 Plebs

But he strolled around a bit, so he's shit

In fairness, I don't always trust these stats based appraisals. But he got an assist, a goal, and suspect a decent amount of passes and percentage. If he had scored 10 this season, people would overlook the weak aspects of his game. He massively needs to improve on the goals scored

His 4 tackles and 2 interceptions bumped him up too. I guess his corner for Meites header goes down as a chance created or a key pass as well.

[NewCorkSeth]

Why can’t they ?
If someone else offers more but we want him we’d have to up our bid !

Because as part of the loan agreement we have a guaranteed bid. We have the option to buy him for a set price. The set price cannot change. That's the whole point of these agreements.

If another team comes in with a much bigger bid Norwich would buy us out of our option if there was such a thing. Contracts are only as valid as the willingness of Reading to enforce.

What? No they just accept both bids.. If they oxf*rd around too much Oliveira gets another loan and leaves on a free at the end of next season.

If Oliveira performs well for us and wants to come here they have to accept the agreed upon amount. It doesn't matter if someone offers double the player decides which contract to accept.

[NewCorkSeth]

John Swift should be sold in the summer whilst he is still worth something, too lightweight and too unfit. We need to invest the money in a healthy, strong, hungry young comabtive midfielder to slot in alongside Rinomhota.

We have one. Ezatolahi. Swift has really been much better this season and it was telling that when he was moved up to the number 10 role at half time he was much better. But despite that he put in his best defensive contribution of the season in the first half yet people are still all over his back saying he's not good enough. He is. You cynic.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

If i wasn't a Reading fan, that would have been a very entertaining game. The last 10 mins was heart in mouth and nights like last night you forget how much a win gives you temporary amnesia. We held on, looked a threat when we played with with purpose. The starting 11 looked like a team full of players who haven't played regularly together. 4 January signings plus a Kelly and Aluko in there and a Richards not in his natural position.

We lost possession time and time again. Hopefully the Kelly Swift partnership is never done again. Very pedestrian in possession throughout midfield.
I still cant get over the lack of a partnership and positional sense we had down the left. Blackett was coming so far forward and then infield, caused us so many problems when we lost possession. Probs the worst I have seen him since Gomes come in. Richards just didn't understand his position.

What a difference having a striker like Oliveria in the team. He did very little in our defensive half = good! His movement and positioning was always an out ball and opened up the play and gave blackburn something to think about. He was a class above the rest.
When we had Meite as the focal point he gets too distracted to win the ball back which is great but then leaves us all huddled together in our own half.

[Old Man Andrews]

John Swift should be sold in the summer whilst he is still worth something, too lightweight and too unfit. We need to invest the money in a healthy, strong, hungry young comabtive midfielder to slot in alongside Rinomhota.

We have one. Ezatolahi. Swift has really been much better this season and it was telling that when he was moved up to the number 10 role at half time he was much better. But despite that he put in his best defensive contribution of the season in the first half yet people are still all over his back saying he's not good enough. He is. You cynic.

Ezatolahi is both not our player and also permanently injured, what a stupid argument to make. He won't be here next season.

John Swift is a lazy, unfit casual player who has no future at the club, we need to get as much as we can for him and get rid.

[NewCorkSeth]

John Swift should be sold in the summer whilst he is still worth something, too lightweight and too unfit. We need to invest the money in a healthy, strong, hungry young comabtive midfielder to slot in alongside Rinomhota.

We have one. Ezatolahi. Swift has really been much better this season and it was telling that when he was moved up to the number 10 role at half time he was much better. But despite that he put in his best defensive contribution of the season in the first half yet people are still all over his back saying he's not good enough. He is. You cynic.

Ezatolahi is both not our player and also permanently injured, what a stupid argument to make. He won't be here next season.

John Swift is a lazy, unfit casual player who has no future at the club, we need to get as much as we can for him and get rid.

Tell me what you really think.

[Hound]

John Swift should be sold in the summer whilst he is still worth something, too lightweight and too unfit. We need to invest the money in a healthy, strong, hungry young comabtive midfielder to slot in alongside Rinomhota.

We have one. Ezatolahi. Swift has really been much better this season and it was telling that when he was moved up to the number 10 role at half time he was much better. But despite that he put in his best defensive contribution of the season in the first half yet people are still all over his back saying he's not good enough. He is. You cynic.

Ezatolahi is both not our player and also permanently injured, what a stupid argument to make. He won't be here next season.

John Swift is a lazy, unfit casual player who has no future at the club, we need to get as much as we can for him and get rid.

tbf think that is a very lazy appraisal of Swift. I think he is one of the hardest working players in the side, and just as some of his tricks don't come off, doesn't make him casual.

He is piss poor in partnership with Kelly. They bring out the worst in each other. It should never happen again. But he is a good number 10, which is where he should stay.

[Millsy]

Kelly was generally very poor and I was one of the few calling for him to come in I think I counted 3 forward passes by him and everything else was sidewards if he wasn't losing the ball.

Harsh to pick on one poster in particular, but in the interest of avoiding fake news, I feel obliged to point out that according to the TLS football app, Kelly made 12 forward passes*, more than any other midfielder (Swift and Ejaria next on 9 each), as part of his 49 overall passes (Swift second highest midfielder on 47). He completed 43 of them, for a completion rate of 88% (Swift completed 40 - 85%).

He also won the ball in the defensive third 6 times (Yiadom won it there 7 times, but no other midfielder won it more than 3), and 3 more times in the middle third (Swift 4, and Ejaria 5). He therefore won the ball 9 times in total, level with Yiadom (9), and ahead of Ejaria (8), Blackett (7), Moore (6), Swift (5), Richards (3) and Aluko/Miazga (2 each).

He only lost possession 8 times (Swift 15, Ejaria 11, Richards 8, Aluko 7)

*-there is a valid counterpoint on sideways vs forward pass, and I don't have the definition. And you all are perfectly obliged to feel he played badly in spite of the above stats.

Really useful thanks BT. I can feel less embarrassed to have wanted him in now! Funny how stats can give such a different picture to the impression we get watching a game live. Gomes obviously got a similar impression hence bringing him off.

We do know to take stats with a pinch of salt though. The forward passes I'm talking about are significant ones that actually would've been useful. What stuck in my mind most of the time were copout sideways passes or little forward touches that did nothing and I didn't count.

And also the whole midfield was pretty poor so yes not fair to single out Kelly. I think the only reason I singled him out is because I was keenly expeting him to do much better as I was one of the few calling for him to return.

[Nameless]

Because as part of the loan agreement we have a guaranteed bid. We have the option to buy him for a set price. The set price cannot change. That's the whole point of these agreements.

If another team comes in with a much bigger bid Norwich would buy us out of our option if there was such a thing. Contracts are only as valid as the willingness of Reading to enforce.

What? No they just accept both bids.. If they oxf*rd around too much Oliveira gets another loan and leaves on a free at the end of next season.

If Oliveira performs well for us and wants to come here they have to accept the agreed upon amount. It doesn't matter if someone offers double the player decides which contract to accept.

If someone offers double that is the deal that will be done, unless we up our bid ! Norwich would make it worth Oliviera’s while to go to the club offering the most money.
Presumably the pre agreed price will factor in the possibility that a player will perform well. It’s going to cost to have the option and potentially means you’re paying more than you need to in order to have this nominal ‘first option’.
Seems it’s essentially a gentleman’s agreement that is wide open to not being honoured. Has there ever been an instance where a club has had this ‘option’ but has not actually managed to sign the player and subsequently sued ? We had an option to buy Glenn Murraybut he just laughed and walked away - so much for that ‘option’ !

[Old Man Andrews]

We have one. Ezatolahi. Swift has really been much better this season and it was telling that when he was moved up to the number 10 role at half time he was much better. But despite that he put in his best defensive contribution of the season in the first half yet people are still all over his back saying he's not good enough. He is. You cynic.

Ezatolahi is both not our player and also permanently injured, what a stupid argument to make. He won't be here next season.

John Swift is a lazy, unfit casual player who has no future at the club, we need to get as much as we can for him and get rid.

tbf think that is a very lazy appraisal of Swift. I think he is one of the hardest working players in the side, and just as some of his tricks don't come off, doesn't make him casual.

He is piss poor in partnership with Kelly. They bring out the worst in each other. It should never happen again. But he is a good number 10, which is where he should stay.

I predict neither Swift or Kelly will be here next season, will put money on it.

[Millsy]

I really just do not get how anyone can see any of Martinez's performances since he joined us that way. Try running back through game footage and producing evidence to support those claims. I'm pretty sure I can guess what our defenders would say as well. Rubbish scuffs when he hoofs it?

Exactly this.

Shotstopping - brilliant.
Distribution - brilliant.
Command of area - brilliant.
Organising defence (in such a short space of time!) - brilliant.

I don't necessarily like the style of him passing it out and to begin with it used to make me cringe but a) it's what he's being asked to do, not his choice necesarily and b) I've been watching closely and every single pass he's made has found the intended player, and that player has always managed to hold it, pass it off, do something with it. Several times that cringeworthy pass has drawn pressing opposition players onto the defender who were quickly bypassed and we exploited the space to attack. I've been really really impressed with his ability to do this and the defenders' ability to take the ball.

There have however been some shocking passes BACK to Martinez putting him under pressure but that's a different matter.

I desperately hope we sign him permanently but somehow doubt he'll be allowed to leave.

[Millsy]

I really just do not get how anyone can see any of Martinez's performances since he joined us that way. Try running back through game footage and producing evidence to support those claims. I'm pretty sure I can guess what our defenders would say as well. Rubbish scuffs when he hoofs it?

Exactly this.

Shotstopping - brilliant.
Distribution - brilliant.
Command of area - brilliant.
Organising defence (in such a short space of time!) - brilliant.

I don't necessarily like the style of him passing it out and to begin with it used to make me cringe but a) it's what he's being asked to do, not his choice necesarily and b) I've been watching closely and every single pass he's made has found the intended player, and that player has always managed to hold it, pass it off, do something with it. Several times that cringeworthy pass has drawn pressing opposition players onto the defender who were quickly bypassed and we exploited the space to attack. I've been really really impressed with his ability to do this and the defenders' ability to take the ball.

There have however been some shocking passes BACK to Martinez putting him under pressure but that's a different matter.

I desperately hope we sign him permanently but somehow doubt he'll be allowed to leave.

[NewCorkSeth]

If another team comes in with a much bigger bid Norwich would buy us out of our option if there was such a thing. Contracts are only as valid as the willingness of Reading to enforce.

What? No they just accept both bids.. If they oxf*rd around too much Oliveira gets another loan and leaves on a free at the end of next season.

If Oliveira performs well for us and wants to come here they have to accept the agreed upon amount. It doesn't matter if someone offers double the player decides which contract to accept.

If someone offers double that is the deal that will be done, unless we up our bid ! Norwich would make it worth Oliviera’s while to go to the club offering the most money.
Presumably the pre agreed price will factor in the possibility that a player will perform well. It’s going to cost to have the option and potentially means you’re paying more than you need to in order to have this nominal ‘first option’.
Seems it’s essentially a gentleman’s agreement that is wide open to not being honoured. Has there ever been an instance where a club has had this ‘option’ but has not actually managed to sign the player and subsequently sued ? We had an option to buy Glenn Murraybut he just laughed and walked away - so much for that ‘option’ !

On Murray the club didn't laugh at us. Murray didn't want to move here. If he did they would have had to accept our bid.

Christ it's not that complicated! Norwich are not going to pay to sell a player so that's utter bollocks. If we have an agreement to buy for 5 million at the end of his loan that's the end of it. They are contractually obligated to accept our bid. If stoke come in and offer 6 million that means nothing to our bid.

Provided we want Oliveira and he wants to come here Norwich will have to accept the amount they agreed to in the loan deal. End of.