Club Financial Statement

[Southbank Old Boy]

How can anyone be surprised by the wages in this statement?????

Its been said on here loads of times that we were paying about 30-35m whilst in the prem so it all adds up

You have to remember that the likes of Newcastle and West Ham were paying something like double that to get a picture of what that means in the grand scheme of things. There have been other numbers posted on here to show where we sat in the pay stakes

The big question that hasnt been answered is how much did Coppell have to spend during our last season and a half in the prem and why didnt he spend it on players capable of improving the side at the time

I know this was released to appease the "wheres the money gone" goons from earlier in the season, but it really shouldnt need explaining

[Victor Meldrew]

Well at least we now have an 'official' version of where the money has gone.

It makes me feel why the f**k are we as a club now bothered with the premier league - we can't afford it.

Also it was just as well SC didn't spend all that money that was supposed to be available to him.

How do clubs such as
Wigan
Fulham
Bolton
Stoke
Blackburn
Hull
make ends meet especially with crowds generally lower than ours?
Are they possibly better run?

Wigan don't even charge for their car park whereas ours costs £5 ( or is it now an even more scandalous £6) for what is out-of-town parking for 3 hours?
For cost-cutting as we obviously make so little from the bar areas-scrap them and save on staff costs and let us have a bit more room in the downstairs.
Do we need the stewards checking bags etc at every turnstile?
Do we need the "back the boyz" cretin who presumably comes at a cost?
At our more lowly level do we need a nutritionist when players are known to eat fry-ups and Mac Donalds muck?
As our chairman is not egotistical can't we get a sponsor like Waitrose for the stadium itself?
We are lectured about "cutting cloth" but can't the club "practise what it preaches"
£7 million plus on infrastructure-the extension shouldn't have cost more than that or has it been paid for in advance?

[Dirk Gently]

I believe the infrastructure was the media centre (to meet PL standards!) and lots of improvments at Hogwood.

[Southbank Old Boy]

Well at least we now have an 'official' version of where the money has gone.

It makes me feel why the f**k are we as a club now bothered with the premier league - we can't afford it.

Also it was just as well SC didn't spend all that money that was supposed to be available to him.

Did you not notice that the two years in the Prem were pretty much the only years we've made a profit?

It might cost more to play at that table, but the vast sums of money you get rewarded with counter that outlay

Its harder to make money in the lower leagues, so can we afford NOT to be in the prem?

[Dirk Gently]

Well at least we now have an 'official' version of where the money has gone.

It makes me feel why the f**k are we as a club now bothered with the premier league - we can't afford it.

Also it was just as well SC didn't spend all that money that was supposed to be available to him.

Did you not notice that the two years in the Prem were pretty much the only years we've made a profit?

It might cost more to play at that table, but the vast sums of money you get rewarded with counter that outlay

Its harder to make money in the lower leagues, so can we afford NOT to be in the prem?

The paradox is that to be sure of staying in the PL you need to pump lots of money in, and then you don't make a profit. No-one makes a profit from being in the PL.

[strap]

The accounts submitted to Companies House for the two years in the PL show :

total income in the 2 years of £107,481,168
net spending on players £12,037,519 (in four transfer windows remember)
gross staff costs incl social sec & pension £62,938,027 (average number of staff over the 2 seasons, 473, of which players 38)
accrued interest on Chairman's loan £2,109,579
outstanding loans to Chairman £25,843,238 (of which £8M to RFC, £17M to Hotel, 100% owned by RFC)
profit for the 2 years £13,279,438

I think it is worth being in the PL if a club is run sensibly. Not sure whether a "sensibly run" club can actually stay there of course!!

As another poster mentioned, I have no idea how the likes of Wigan, Blackburn, Portsmouth, Fulham, Burnley, Hull etc can survive. Maybe the anwswer is in the long term they can't.

HTH

[Southbank Old Boy]

The answer is they all have someone willing to pump money in and they dont worry about breaking even so much

[Man Friday]

at all of you who lap up this "information" without question. The most interesting financial information is always that which is not provided.

Um, LOL at those who think everyone takes it at face value !!

Agreed.

[Southbank Old Boy]

Well at least we now have an 'official' version of where the money has gone.

It makes me feel why the f**k are we as a club now bothered with the premier league - we can't afford it.

Also it was just as well SC didn't spend all that money that was supposed to be available to him.

Did you not notice that the two years in the Prem were pretty much the only years we've made a profit?

It might cost more to play at that table, but the vast sums of money you get rewarded with counter that outlay

Its harder to make money in the lower leagues, so can we afford NOT to be in the prem?

The paradox is that to be sure of staying in the PL you need to pump lots of money in, and then you don't make a profit. No-one makes a profit from being in the PL.

Depends how well you spend that money

I think its easier to make a smaller loss or even profit in the prem, and survive, than it is in the lower leagues where income is so much more difficult to come by and fans wont put up with just making up the numbers like they will when rubbing shoulders with the big boys

[Dirk Gently]

The answer is they all have someone willing to pump money in and they dont worry about breaking even so much

Indeed. But you can only do that for so long, and as a labour of love.

And it's not always donated money - it's frequently loaned to the club, so they're building up debts that they no realistic hope of ever paying off.

EDIT - Just looked it up. Wigan's debt is currently £22M and rising.

[PEARCEY]

Well at least we now have an 'official' version of where the money has gone.

It makes me feel why the f**k are we as a club now bothered with the premier league - we can't afford it.

Also it was just as well SC didn't spend all that money that was supposed to be available to him.

How do clubs such as
Wigan
Fulham
Bolton
Stoke
Blackburn
Hull
make ends meet especially with crowds generally lower than ours?
Are they possibly better run?

Wigan don't even charge for their car park whereas ours costs £5 ( or is it now an even more scandalous £6) for what is out-of-town parking for 3 hours?
For cost-cutting as we obviously make so little from the bar areas-scrap them and save on staff costs and let us have a bit more room in the downstairs.
Do we need the stewards checking bags etc at every turnstile?
Do we need the "back the boyz" cretin who presumably comes at a cost?
At our more lowly level do we need a nutritionist when players are known to eat fry-ups and Mac Donalds muck?
As our chairman is not egotistical can't we get a sponsor like Waitrose for the stadium itself?
We are lectured about "cutting cloth" but can't the club "practise what it preaches"
£7 million plus on infrastructure-the extension shouldn't have cost more than that or has it been paid for in advance?

It costs £8 to park in the park and walk car-park....

[Ark Royal]

Almost depressing reading this thread when you come to realise that the game nowadays is all about money and not the glory. To aspire to reach the very top level of the game - the Premiership - and to stay there is basically a death sentence for the club because financially it is virtually unsustainable. Leeds, Charlton, Southampton are prime examples and no doubt many more will follow - Hull? Pompey? At some point down the line the game has to adopt salary caps at even the top tier.

[Victor Meldrew]

The answer is they all have someone willing to pump money in and they dont worry about breaking even so much

Or perhaps they are just better run-it could just be that our club is not as well-run as so many posters would have us believe.
I think our season-tickets are more expensive than Blackburn's even now and probably less than Wigan's.
Whelan might still be at Wigan but Walker has been long gone from Blackburn and Bolton has no significant patronage.
With very astute operations in the transfer market these clubs do manage to survive and when they sell somebody like Palacios,Valencia or Santa Cruz they somehow get good enough cheap replacements.
Maybe that is an area that our club should concentrate on more by paying salaries for scouts rather than the many hangers-on that are attached to RFC in the non-footballing areas.

[Sun Tzu]

How do clubs such as
Wigan
Fulham
Bolton
Stoke
Blackburn
Hull
make ends meet especially with crowds generally lower than ours?
Are they possibly better run?

?

I guess question 1 is do they make ends meet or are the actually massively in debt ?

Most of them though have had an owner prepared to finance spending well in excess of income on a long term basis whilst our owner has consistently said for a long time that he would not work on that basis

Fulham haven't had a new ground to finance, nor have Blackburn.

Hull have a new ground which is owned by their local council

Blackburn have a large 'trust fund' provided by their erstwhile owner as a legacy

Blackburn have lots of years of Premiership earnings, European football etc

No two clubs are the same. They have different history, different assets, different income streams

And of course some of them may be better run.

I'm not sure where that gets us, whilst as I understand it within the football world we are considered a well run club that doesn't preclude other clubs being better run ....

[Dirk Gently]

...... At some point down the line the game has to adopt salary caps at even the top tier.

Yes, if they can actually be enforced, which is doubtful. But I think it's a better thing to not let clubs run up unsustainable debt (excluding things like stadium building) than try and restrict what they pay to people. I'm with Platini on this one!

[PEARCEY]

How do clubs such as
Wigan
Fulham
Bolton
Stoke
Blackburn
Hull
make ends meet especially with crowds generally lower than ours?
Are they possibly better run?

?

I guess question 1 is do they make ends meet or are the actually massively in debt ?

Most of them though have had an owner prepared to finance spending well in excess of income on a long term basis whilst our owner has consistently said for a long time that he would not work on that basis

Fulham haven't had a new ground to finance, nor have Blackburn.

Hull have a new ground which is owned by their local council

Blackburn have a large 'trust fund' provided by their erstwhile owner as a legacy

Blackburn have lots of years of Premiership earnings, European football etc

No two clubs are the same. They have different history, different assets, different income streams

And of course some of them may be better run.

I'm not sure where that gets us, whilst as I understand it within the football world we are considered a well run club that doesn't preclude other clubs being better run ....

Good post ST

[Victor Meldrew]

Almost depressing reading this thread when you come to realise that the game nowadays is all about money and not the glory. To aspire to reach the very top level of the game - the Premiership - and to stay there is basically a death sentence for the club because financially it is virtually unsustainable. Leeds, Charlton, Southampton are prime examples and no doubt many more will follow - Hull? Pompey? At some point down the line the game has to adopt salary caps at even the top tier.

But Ark there are still clubs like Blackburn,Bolton,Wigan and Fulham that keep their places at the top level so it CAN be done with astute management and sound house-keeping.

[Sun Tzu]

With very astute operations in the transfer market these clubs do manage to survive

Doyle, Hunt, Kitson, Bikey, Sonko, Shorey.......

[Dirk Gently]

I'm not sure where that gets us, whilst as I understand it within the football world we are considered a well run club that doesn't preclude other clubs being better run ....

We are. The problem is that with football structured the way it currently is, it isn't the better run clubs that succeed, it's the ones who are prepared to gamble and to run up massive debts that they'll have no hope of paying off (e.g. Wigan owe £22M).

And supporters (as well as some owners) see clubs living beyond their means and being successful and want their club to do the same.....

[Ian Royal]

Au contraire Dirk Dasterdly....Spend on playing staff in an attempt to get back into the Premiership. The club therefore becomes a more valuable commodity if Premiership status is gained (and more importantly retained longer term).

Fair enough - that's where the money's going. But does this investor of yours give us the money or lend us the money?

He gives us the money Dirk because he sees that money as an investment that he will more than recoup upon selling the club as a Premiership entity which will be worth a lot more than what he paid for Reading FC when the club was languishing near the bottom of the second tier.
Its a very simplistic way of looking at things I'll admit but clearly Mr Mad is no longer willing to be a benovolent benefactor and I'm afraid thats whats needed to move this club back to the lofty heights of two/three years ago.
PS How's Mutley?

So you want someone to buy us. Then give us loads of money to get back into the Premier League and then sell us so he can make a profit. That's hardly a sustainable and long term model, what happens when we're sold? Do you want the next owner to give us loads of money then as well? How does that person make their money back?

You're also assuming that the amount given to get us there is less than the increase in value of the club once we are there.

And if the investor doesn't sell us once we get there (assuming we do) how do they make their money back? You don't get it simply from owning a valuable club, if the money you've given them was a donation, not a loan.