Stewards

[Terminal Boardom]

Considering that traditionally standing areas were behind the goals, I can see the North Stand being converted raher than anywhere else. And I stress traditionally as in football grounds in general.

[Sun Tzu]

Would be good to have a proper study done that really gets into the nitty gritty of how and if it would work. I think it's over simplistic to think it could be done cheaply and without upsetting a lot of people and I'm still not convinced the demand is there (but willing to find it is !!)

All the surveys show that approximately 30-40% of all supporters would chose to stand and that approx 70-80% of all supporters favour the introduction of safe standing areas.

Would be interesting to see the survey for us.

We're different to 'traditional' clubs in that we've increased our attendnaces substantially over the last decade at an all seater stadium. I suspect a significant proportion of our fans have never stood on a terrace at games. and I recall we also tend to have a larger % of children / women / families than many clubs.

If the demand is there it is extremely latent. Even on HNA there are is a pretty small number speaking up in favour of it.

[WoodleyRoyal]

A lot of fans from elm park days don't go anymore because of the all seater,non smoking, over priced madjeski stadium. All three could be sorted with terracing

[Jerry St Clair]

Would be interesting to see the survey for us.

We're different to 'traditional' clubs in that we've increased our attendnaces substantially over the last decade at an all seater stadium. I suspect a significant proportion of our fans have never stood on a terrace at games. and I recall we also tend to have a larger % of children / women / families than many clubs.

If the demand is there it is extremely latent. Even on HNA there are is a pretty small number speaking up in favour of it.

Yes. I'm fully aware that the club don't want me at the Madejski. I like to stand, I like a drink (but in a pub, not the concourse) and I don't buy merchandise. Hence I don't go to games anymore. But I absolutely appreciate that RFC don't miss me one little bit.

[Sun Tzu]

A lot of fans from elm park days don't go anymore because of the all seater,non smoking, over priced madjeski stadium. All three could be sorted with terracing

Terracing would have nothing to do with smoking. It probably wouldn't have any significant effect on pricing (bearing in mind it would cost a lot to implement it it). I'll give you that it would deal withthe all seater aspect !

Not sure I buy the bit about lots of fans not going who were at EP, we seem to have much bigger crowds these days so not only must the numbers who decided not to watch the best football we've ever seen be fairly small they are dwarfed by the numbers of new people who have startedcoming in the last decade.

[Sun Tzu]

Yes. I'm fully aware that the club don't want me at the Madejski. I like to stand, I like a drink (but in a pub, not the concourse) and I don't buy merchandise. Hence I don't go to games anymore. But I absolutely appreciate that RFC don't miss me one little bit.

I don't understand your point. You don't go and watch Reading because you like to stand ? Something that has nothing to do with RFC.
The fact that you don't buy merchandise isn;t a reason for you not to go, they don't check at the turnstiles whether you have £100 of tat !
The fact that you like to drink in a pub is your own choice, and you have the choice of 4 or 5 pubs that run buses to the games or you could drink in town and then get to games.
If you chose not to go to games then that is absolutely your choice. Your reasons seem a bit obscure though. Personally I go to watch football and whether I do so stood up or sat down is a very secondary issue. I soemtimes think some people would rather stand in an empty stadium than sit and watch their team play. The priorities seem strange but each to their own.... I wouold 100% agree though that the old days of the South Bank, Shed, North Bank, Shelf, Kop etc are much missed and the game is pooer in some ways for their loss (although much safer).

[Rex]

The non smoking is a misnomer anyhow. Even smokers can go a full 2 hours plus without smoking! If needed get into the North stand and the East where you can get out to smoke.
The price of football has risen granted, but so does everything in life and if someone smokes, have they stopped smoking because of the price hike, i don't think so.
Terracing is another issue, but as with any new stadium, it takes a while for the support to gravitate to an environment where they feel happier. To stop watching football because you have to sit down is clearly a weakened arguement when what is under discussion here is the varying levels of acceptance with standing from the safety stewards.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Good replies ST, but not sure it is really safer, were there that many injuries at EP, it may be more comfortable, and other than the safety gate I think that many things the club have done, and had to do are good.

[Sun Tzu]

Good replies ST, but not sure it is really safer, were there that many injuries at EP, it may be more comfortable, and other than the safety gate I think that many things the club have done, and had to do are good.

Purely personal experience rather than stats.

I've stood on the Wembley terraces with 100,000+ there and come out bruised and battered. I've stood on the North Bank at Highbury and come out unable to walk having been crushed and twisted in a seething mass of people. I've stood on the Paxton (? opposite end to the away end) terrace at Spurs and been held at a 45 degree angle in a packed crowd and been scared stiff. Add in the old surges on the SB where you could get sent flying by people rushing forward when we score.

Never even felt remotely likely to be crushed in a seated stand.

I know the new terrace designs are very different, so I'm not saying the old problems woul dbe a factor. But personally whilst I enjoyed many superb football experiences on the old terraces I also had some very scary ones. For some that may be all part of it, I stand by my belief though that there are (were ?) dangers in terraces that don;t exist in seated areas.

I also fear that terraces would give much more scope for the return of the sort of violence that we just don;t see in grounds these days. Not saying it would return, but if it did a terrace gives less control of crowds and more room for those wanting to cause trouble to get together and move around. Not sure how you weigh up the risks vs the benefits.

[Rex]

Very good point in the last paragraph reference trouble moving around in the terrace. The other possible issue here is the involvement of spotters trying to actually remove someone in what could be an unstable atmosphere. I think if there was a general consensus to move towards terracing then strict control., membership to these stands and limiting numbers could resolve some of the concerns.

[Sun Tzu]

Very good point in the last paragraph reference trouble moving around in the terrace. The other possible issue here is the involvement of spotters trying to actually remove someone in what could be an unstable atmosphere. I think if there was a general consensus to move towards terracing then strict control., membership to these stands and limiting numbers could resolve some of the concerns.

I suspect that both sides of the debate need to bear in mind the 'new' terraces would be entirely different to the 'old' terraces. That may no tbe good news for those arguing for them to be brought back. I don;t think they would be half as much fun as the old ones (or half as dangerous) and I suspect we'd see several seasons of people stood on them trying to remeber what they are supposed to do !

Would be interesting to see what sort of new terrace culture evolved in a highly controlled environment which I suspect would be much like a seated stand, just without the seats !

[Southbank Old Boy]

Not sure I buy the bit about lots of fans not going who were at EP, we seem to have much bigger crowds these days so not only must the numbers who decided not to watch the best football we've ever seen be fairly small they are dwarfed by the numbers of new people who have startedcoming in the last decade.

Of the 10-12 I used to stand with at one point, only about 3 of us still go. Not all for the same reasons, but basically because its not the same as it was

A few of them came back for a while on the way to promotion and the first season in the premiership

Yes. I'm fully aware that the club don't want me at the Madejski. I like to stand, I like a drink (but in a pub, not the concourse) and I don't buy merchandise. Hence I don't go to games anymore. But I absolutely appreciate that RFC don't miss me one little bit.

I don't understand your point. You don't go and watch Reading because you like to stand ? Something that has nothing to do with RFC.
The fact that you don't buy merchandise isn;t a reason for you not to go, they don't check at the turnstiles whether you have £100 of tat !
The fact that you like to drink in a pub is your own choice, and you have the choice of 4 or 5 pubs that run buses to the games or you could drink in town and then get to games.
If you chose not to go to games then that is absolutely your choice. Your reasons seem a bit obscure though. Personally I go to watch football and whether I do so stood up or sat down is a very secondary issue. I soemtimes think some people would rather stand in an empty stadium than sit and watch their team play. The priorities seem strange but each to their own.... I wouold 100% agree though that the old days of the South Bank, Shed, North Bank, Shelf, Kop etc are much missed and the game is pooer in some ways for their loss (although much safer).

I still go, but I know exactly what Jerry is getting at. The club want the match day consumer who they can market to, not the traditional football goer. Your comments are of course correct, but they dont take into account the way the atmospher and way we are treated has changed significanlty so that we arent quite as welcome as before because the whole environment is different and set up for a different market

it kind of puts you off

[Sun Tzu]

I still go, but I know exactly what Jerry is getting at. The club want the match day consumer who they can market to, not the traditional football goer. Your comments are of course correct, but they dont take into account the way the atmospher and way we are treated has changed significanlty so that we arent quite as welcome as before because the whole environment is different and set up for a different market

it kind of puts you off

I'd guess over a decade lots of things change....

When I first started going to football there was no segregation, you risked life and limb cheering your team some weeks. You risked salmonella if you ate the food and dystentary if you used the toilets. You missed half the game because you had a tall bloke in front of you and a pillar blocking the goal ! If we had a big cup game you had to go queue for hours if you wanted to get a ticket. Great imes !! Loved going to football then, miss the feeling of camerardery on the terraces.

There's also usually a 10-15% turn over of STH so I suspect if you took and group of 10 people and looked at them over 10 years a fair few would drop out. Of the group I went with years ago 4 have moved away, one got religion, one had a mental breakdown, one simply disappeared, one got married to a woman who thought Saturday's were for shopping. For some the cost and the 'change' in the game no doubt meant they didn;t fight against stopping as hard as they might.

Would bringing back the terracesmean these 'lost souls' would return ? Some maybe, but they've been replaced like they always are.

[Dirk Gently]

The big, big terraces are dead for ever. Safe standing areas would never match those - in both good and bad ways.

For instance, you said going to the toilets - on many packed terraces people just went where they stood. But at the same time, the need to be in place by 2 pm to get a decent view on a packed terrace is what lead to great atmosphere, anticipation and "terrace culture " - including the songs.

These days even with safe standing you'd still get people watching the concourse tellies until 2.55.

[WoodleyRoyal]

Football stadiums dont actually fall under the smoking ban, it's club policy that bans it. I have been to numerous stadiums over the last couple of years that have terracing that allows smoking, i dont think its completely out the question for there to be smoking in the terraces.

[Jerry St Clair]

I don't understand your point. You don't go and watch Reading because you like to stand ? Something that has nothing to do with RFC.
The fact that you don't buy merchandise isn;t a reason for you not to go, they don't check at the turnstiles whether you have £100 of tat !
The fact that you like to drink in a pub is your own choice, and you have the choice of 4 or 5 pubs that run buses to the games or you could drink in town and then get to games.
If you chose not to go to games then that is absolutely your choice. Your reasons seem a bit obscure though. Personally I go to watch football and whether I do so stood up or sat down is a very secondary issue. I soemtimes think some people would rather stand in an empty stadium than sit and watch their team play. The priorities seem strange but each to their own.... I wouold 100% agree though that the old days of the South Bank, Shed, North Bank, Shelf, Kop etc are much missed and the game is pooer in some ways for their loss (although much safer).

They are actually reasons why the club don't care whether I go or not, not reasons why i don't go.

I buy a ticket and stand up. The club would prefer someone who buys a ticket, takes their kids along, shops in the megastore, buys beverages in the concourse and sits down quietly to watch the game.

I don't go because every time I do, I am harassed by club officials wanting me to sit down. if I want a decent drink I have to do so well over a mile from the stadium. I put up with it in the early years at the Mad but am now officially bored with it now.

[Messiah]

I don't understand your point. You don't go and watch Reading because you like to stand ? Something that has nothing to do with RFC.
The fact that you don't buy merchandise isn;t a reason for you not to go, they don't check at the turnstiles whether you have £100 of tat !
The fact that you like to drink in a pub is your own choice, and you have the choice of 4 or 5 pubs that run buses to the games or you could drink in town and then get to games.
If you chose not to go to games then that is absolutely your choice. Your reasons seem a bit obscure though. Personally I go to watch football and whether I do so stood up or sat down is a very secondary issue. I soemtimes think some people would rather stand in an empty stadium than sit and watch their team play. The priorities seem strange but each to their own.... I wouold 100% agree though that the old days of the South Bank, Shed, North Bank, Shelf, Kop etc are much missed and the game is pooer in some ways for their loss (although much safer).

They are actually reasons why the club don't care whether I go or not, not reasons why i don't go.

I buy a ticket and stand up. The club would prefer someone who buys a ticket, takes their kids along, shops in the megastore, buys beverages in the concourse and sits down quietly to watch the game.

I don't go because every time I do, I am harassed by club officials wanting me to sit down. if I want a decent drink I have to do so well over a mile from the stadium. I put up with it in the early years at the Mad but am now officially bored with it now.

^ exactly this.

[Magnus]

Me too. Would rather watch non-league locally than travel back to Reading pay a huge sum to get in and have a mission getting to and from an out of town stadium with no decent pubs near it.
This kind of thing won't matter to the football purists, I suspect Sun Tzu is one of them, but for me the football was only part of the day out, it was the atmosphere & banter I liked as much as watching the game and you just don't get that with the Mad Stad.

Although TBF it's possible I've just outgrown it and wouldn't be going anymore even if we still played at Elm Park.

[Sun Tzu]

This kind of thing won't matter to the football purists, I suspect Sun Tzu is one of them, .

Not sure I'm a purist !

Big thing though is Reading is my team. I'd rather watch them under almost any circumstances than anyone else. I really can't see the point of going to watch a non league side that I care nothing about, I'd find plenty of better ways to spend time than standing on a terrace at Maidenhead or Windsor !

I can 100% see that what works for me won't work for others and we all have different reasons for going to games.

[SpaceCruiser]

Big thing though is Reading is my team. I'd rather watch them under almost any circumstances than anyone else.

I'm like that too and sometimes quite happy to forgo a drink until after the game. And sometimes, I can just cope with tasting one of their overpriced lagers. Just one though.