Is this the worst Man Utd squad for some time?

[BR2]

I must confess that I didn't watch much of last night's game but from what I saw,and from what I saw of the last game v the Russian side,the back-up players at Old Trafford don't seem up to much.

The twin Brazilian full-backs look o.k going forward but defensively they are both reckless.
The much vaunted Obertan looks a bit like Kebe without hair and plays a bit like him.
Gibson,the young Italian and the young black lad up front at the moment hardly appear to be up to Premiership standard.Foster and the Polish keeper look shaky.
Scholes,Giggs and Neville are too old as Van der Sar soon will be.
Ferdinand has big injury problems,Vidic wants to leave as does Nani and Berbatov looks even less interested than normal.

In the club's favour is the massive number of players on the books as full-time professionals including the expensive Hargreaves and because of the numbers they may well finish 2nd,3rd or 4th in The Premiership but without Ronaldo this is a team that lacks sparkle and having over the years been regarded as the great entertainers they have become as dreary to watch as some of the others in The Premiership.

I would expect the cheque-book to come out in January and to a greater extent in the summer as it becomes more and more evident that Ronaldo carried them for the past 3 seasons and papered over the cracks .
I can take Liverpool losing at home to a top French side like Lyon scoring a winner in the last minute but to lose at home to Besiktas who 2 years ago lost 8-0 at Anfield must surely give reason for concern to the hierarchy at Old Trafford.
This thread is not meant to be about any comparison between Liverpool and Man Utd as that has been done to death elsewhere but should Man Utd fans be worried seeing Chelsea steaming on and Arsenal producing a never-ending stream of good youngsters or will they just have faith in the cheque-book which has resolved Man Utd's problems for so many years?

[No Fixed Abode]

Could be 19 league titles this season though.....

[readingbedding]

Chelsea look the strongest outfit so far.
Manchester United & Arsenal look as though they can compete for the title...maybe
Liverpool may not finish top 4.

[Ginger Ninjas]

Chelsea look the strongest outfit so far.
Manchester United & Arsenal look as though they can compete for the title...maybe
Liverpool may not finish top 4.

Pretty much spot on. In the last decade or so United have repeatedly gone in 2/3 season cycles of having a really top side and one that comfortably makes the top 3. The current side is probably the latter, but will still be pushing Chelsea most of the way. Ferguson (assuming he stays) will again take on the challenge of finding those few players to make a big difference. Ronaldo leaving was always going to leave a huge gap, but in the same way that people asked how United would fare without Beckham/Keane/RvN, I'm sure they'll respond over the next 18 months or so.

[TheMaraudingDog]

I must confess that I didn't watch much of last night's game but from what I saw

Maybe you should watch whole games before coming on here.

I know you're on a wind up but the second string is pretty much the same second string that won the Carling Cup last year.

Last night United slaughtered them. Besitas scored a lucky deflected goal and apart from that it was all United. Their keeper made some great saves, we missed some chances and had a clear pen shout turned down. The performance was that of a confident and dominant side. It was just the result that went against us and seeing as the result doesn't really matter I can live with that.

MAN UTDBESIKTAS
Possession
Man Utd 59% Besiktas 41%
Attempts on target
Man Utd 15 Besiktas 2
Attempts off target
Man Utd 10 Besiktas 4
Corners
Man Utd 7 Besiktas 1

Yeah, that pretty much demonstrates that we battered them.

1/10 for the wind up.

[Thaumagurist*]

Hopefully Ferguson will retire soon and Man Utd will appoint some shitty foreign manager, thus begining their descent into mediocrity - back to where they were in the 80's. I dream of that day when Arsenal and Man Utd are not successful for 2 decades.

[Baines]

It's quite a lot better than the 04-05 squad.

[papereyes]

The one thing I would credit Ferguson with being able to do is to create a new squad from the embers of an old one.

He's had several distinct teams that have all ebbed and flowed, but mostly flowed, over the seasons.

To my , I thought they were on the way down around 2004-2006 but what he's done since is genuinely impressive.

[Quagmire]

Hopefully Ferguson will retire soon and Man Utd will appoint some shitty foreign manager, thus begining their descent into mediocrity

Basically copy Liverpool's approach?

[Thaumagurist*]

Hopefully Ferguson will retire soon and Man Utd will appoint some shitty foreign manager, thus begining their descent into mediocrity

Basically copy Liverpool's approach?

Yep.

Their decline started once Dalglish quit, innit?

[TBM]

I dream of that day when Arsenal and Man Utd are not successful for 2 decades.

Make your mind up, one minute you're saying Arsenal aren't successful and not even a top 4 side, next you're complaining that they are successful

Just cos your Liverpool side are shite, dont start trying to bring the better sides down too

[Thaumagurist*]

I did say TWO DECADES. They haven't been successful for 4 years. I'm waiting for further failure from them and I wait for the day that they fail to qualify for Champions League - then they'll become an ordinary Premiership team.

[Quagmire]

Basically copy Liverpool's approach?

Yep.

Their decline started once Dalglish quit, innit?

Along with the introduction of the back pass rule.

[Victor Meldrew]

I must confess that I didn't watch much of last night's game but from what I saw

Maybe you should watch whole games before coming on here.

I know you're on a wind up but the second string is pretty much the same second string that won the Carling Cup last year.

Last night United slaughtered them. Besitas scored a lucky deflected goal and apart from that it was all United. Their keeper made some great saves, we missed some chances and had a clear pen shout turned down. The performance was that of a confident and dominant side. It was just the result that went against us and seeing as the result doesn't really matter I can live with that.

MAN UTDBESIKTAS
Possession
Man Utd 59% Besiktas 41%
Attempts on target
Man Utd 15 Besiktas 2
Attempts off target
Man Utd 10 Besiktas 4
Corners
Man Utd 7 Besiktas 1

Yeah, that pretty much demonstrates that we battered them.

1/10 for the wind up.

Maybe I don't want to watch that lot playing whole games before coming on here.
Those stats don't mean much-Liverpool had 70% possession away at Debrecen which doesn't mean a lot-in fact at home I would expect Man Utd to have more than 59% possession against a team like Besiktas.
You haven't really commented on the point about whether this second string is much good especially as Man Utd only snatched a draw against those Russians the other week when the first-teamers came on after conceding 3 and yes I did watch that one.

As far as the wind up is concerned it's not- it was just a topic that came to mind after the one about Liverpool and seemed appropriate because only Liverpool and Man Utd seem to struggle with back-up players when the other 2 of the big 4 in Chelsea and Arsenal don't.

[Wide and Wonderful]

[quote="Victor MeldrewAs far as the wind up is concerned it's not- it was just a topic that came to mind after the one about Liverpool and seemed appropriate because only Liverpool and Man Utd seem to struggle with back-up players when the other 2 of the big 4 in Chelsea and Arsenal don't.[/quote]

The difference is in the way these clubs manage their backup. Backup players will obviously not match up to the first team, but they are there for the future and need to be developed:

Liverpool's backup squad consists of average 25-30 year olds who don't get much of a look in and only play 2-3 games a season not allowing them to get any consistency in their individual play.

Arsenal's backup are youngsters who are regularly given sub appearances and a chance to shine over a season with each getting around 10-15 appearances preparing them for a better season next season, or affording them much needed experience so that when they are called upon, the already have that experience.

Man Utd also have a backup of talented upcoming youngsters blended with older senior players (the likes of Gary Neville and Wes Brown for example) who are now seeing out their career. Exposing these young players over a season or two will help build up their experience for when they either become regular first teamers or are farmed out.

Chelsea's backup seems to consist of fully fledged internationals with very few youngsters coming through - Whilst arguably the strongest squad in the Prem today, unless they start bringing the youngsters through they could be heading the way of Liverpool in the next 2-3 seasons becuase I'm not sure they still have the buying power they once had.

[No Fixed Abode]

I did say TWO DECADES. They haven't been successful for 4 years. I'm waiting for further failure from them and I wait for the day that they fail to qualify for Champions League - then they'll become an ordinary Premiership team.

So, let me get this right - Liverpool have never won the Premier league? And they haven't won the title since the back pass rule came in to effect...?

[PlasticRoyale]

It's a little unbalanced and needs a few players to kick on a bit (Anderson, Berbatov etc). They are, however, 2nd and have just qualified for the next round of CL. Midfield is a bit of a worry lots of v. good players but none outstanding.

[Thaumagurist*]

I did say TWO DECADES. They haven't been successful for 4 years. I'm waiting for further failure from them and I wait for the day that they fail to qualify for Champions League - then they'll become an ordinary Premiership team.

So, let me get this right - Liverpool have never won the Premier league? And they haven't won the title since the back pass rule came in to effect...?

What's your point?

[No Fixed Abode]

I did say TWO DECADES. They haven't been successful for 4 years. I'm waiting for further failure from them and I wait for the day that they fail to qualify for Champions League - then they'll become an ordinary Premiership team.

So, let me get this right - Liverpool have never won the Premier league? And they haven't won the title since the back pass rule came in to effect...?

What's your point?

[Silver Fox]

I've honestly never understood your "since the back pass rule came in" argument Kes, are you suggesting that all Liverpool's titles were based on the keeper being allowed to pick the ball up?