European Leagues Thread 2012/2013

[RoyalChicagoFC]

Amazing scenes in France on the final day. With Lyon installed as champions, Marseille safe as runners up and the relegation picture sorted, it came down to a quadrangular tussle for third place and a berth in the third qualifying round of the Champions League.

All four sides would take at least one turn in third place on the evening, which is where Lens stood entering play before being battered 0-3 away to already relegated Troyes. Rennes, in fifth going in, were on course to steal third place after John Utaka put them a goal up on 73', but they conceded in stoppage time to finish 1-1 with visiting Lille.

Toulouse, standing sixth entering play --and having been given two points by the LFP after their match away to Nantes last weekend was abandoned due to crowd trouble with the score 0-0 late on-- hosted League Cup winners Bordeaux and handily beat them 3-1; the guests entered play in fourth and safely qualified for the UEFA Cup and, as events unfolded across the division, could have finished in third with a draw --but instead the amazing truth is that it will be Toulouse headed to Champions League qualifying, Rennes moving up to fourth and claiming the one UEFA Cup berth on offer, and Lens, who finish fifth, out in the cold.

Sochaux stood seventh going in and had an absurdly impobable shot at claiming third with goal-differences stacked against them, but they were already qualified for the UEFA Cup by virtue of their win in the Coupe de France; they finished seventh after beating visiting St-Etienne 1-0.

As noted last week, Troyes, Sedan and Nice go down, and joining Metz and Strasbourg in Ligue 1 next season will be Caen, who won on Friday to claim third on the final day of action in Ligue 2. FC Istres, who spent the 2004/5 season in Ligue 1, have been relegated from Ligue 2.

Here's the top of the table:
1) Lyon (81/+37) 3-1 --CHAMPIONS
2) Marseille (64/+15) 1-0 --RUNNERS UP; QUALIFIED FOR CHAMPIONS LEAGUE

3) Toulouse (58/+1) --to Champions League Qualifying

4) Rennes (57/+8) 1-1 Lille (A) --to UEFA CUP

5) Lens (57/+6) 0-3 Troyes (A)
6) Bordeaux (57/+4) 1-3 Toulouse (A) --QUALIFIED FOR UEFA CUP as French League Cup Winners
7) Sochaux (57/-2) 1-0 St.-Etienne (H) --QUALIFIED FOR UEFA CUP as French Cup Winner

Quick note from Spain: Valencia lost to Villarreal 2-3 at home on Saturday, and Real Madrid followed up with a 3-1 home win over Deportivo, so Valencia's title hopes are at an end. Barcelona are winning, and Sevilla therefore are looking at a must-win scenario over their final three games if they want to keep alive any hopes of winning the title or finishing as runners up.

[Compo's Hat]

Barcelona won 1-0 thanks to Ronaldiniho who was sent off later on.

Real still ahead due to a better head to head record.

[Ginger Ninjas]

The bottom half of Serie A is fascinating, three points cover 18th to 11th with one game remaining. Are there still four relegation places in Italy?

[RoyalChicagoFC]

I'm not quite clear on Serie A, and this is after having looked at numerous reports, tables with detailed explanations and so forth. As to whether or not fourth is relegation-imperiled, whether directly or via a playoff, I would answer that --this being Italy-- such likely depends on the thickness of the envelope.

According to a Reuters report, five remain at risk of relegation in addition to the two already down: Parma, Reggina, Catania, Chievo and Siena.

Parma host Empoli, Reggina host Milan, Catania host Chievo (in a match to be played in Bologna with an eye toward saving cops' lives), and Siena host Lazio. Here's where they stand headed into Sunday's play:

14) Chievo 39
15) Parma 39
16) Catania 38
17) Reggina 37

18) Siena 37
19) Messina --GONE
20) Ascoli --GONE

Reggina are carrying an 11-point deduction for match fixing, and Siena a 1-point deduction for, er, a late social security payment or somedamnthing.

It is my understanding that a two-way dead heat wherein a relegation matter is to be decided requires a playoff; goal difference and other numerical tiebreakers are not in force. If three or more end up tied, then gawd help us all...

[RoyalChicagoFC]

Right, Chievo down, falling from 14th to 18th after losing 2-0 away to Catania in a match played at Bologna. Catania replaced Siena in the drop spot after Siena scored early from a Maccarone pen, but Catania went ahead on 66' to put Chievo under the blade.

Lazio equalised at Siena thru Rocchi on 73' to put Siena back on the rack, but Siena reclaimed the lead on 84' thru Paolo Negro and returned Chievo --down 2-0 by then-- to the drop spot, and there it ended. As this was going on, Parma were beating Empoli 3-1, and Reggina were defeating Milan 2-0, to account for their own safety.

So your Serie A shakeout:
Inter and Roma to the Champions League
Lazio and Milan to Champions League third qualifying round
Fiorentina, Parma and Empoli to the UEFA Cup
Chievo, Ascoli and Messina relegated

Two games left for all in Serie B; Juve up

[Arch]

Bit of an LOL at England's finest not being able to handle Italy's fourth best team.

[RoyalChicagoFC]

The situation in Spain with two matches to go

Matchday #37 next Sunday 10th June, and the final day a week after

When it comes to the title, as we know, Spain's first-order tiebreaker with teams level on table points is points won in head-to-head competition in league play (with an away goals bonus factored in if necessary), then goal-difference and, latterly, goals scored.

However --and believe me, I've asked around-- I don't know how they settle Champions League and UEFA Cup berths and relegation in the event of level finishes on points --is it head-to-head competition, or is it goal-difference? Any help here would be appreciated, but I'm proceeding on the assumption that it's head-to-head results for any tiebreaker until someone tells me otherwise.

Top two finishers to Champions League group stage; third and fourth to Champions League third qualifying round; fifth and sixth to UEFA Cup, plus seventh if Getafe finish in the top six

1) Real Madrid (72/+24) Real Zaragoza (A), Mallorca (H)
2) Barcelona (72/+41) Espanyol (H), Gimnastic (A)
With a win and a draw in their two matches, Real own an irreversible tiebreaker over Barca. Both will finish in the top three

3) Sevilla (70/+30) Mallorca (A), Villarreal (H)
4) Valencia (65/+17) Levante (A), Real Sociedad (H)
Both are assured to finish in the top four; Valencia cannot be champions or runners up.
Sevilla defeated Real 2-1 at home and lost 3-2 away in league play
Sevilla defeated Valencia 3-0 at home and lost 2-0 away
Sevilla lost 1-3 away to Barcelona and defeated them 2-1 at home

5) Real Zaragoza (58/+12) Real Madrid (H), Recreativo Huelva (A)
6) Atletico Madrid (57/+7) Celta Vigo (H), Osasuna (A)
Zaragoza defeated Atletico twice in league play; they won and drew with Getafe; and they defeated Villarreal 1-0 at home and lost away 3-2
Atletico defeated both Villarreal and Getafe twice

7) Villarreal (56/+1) Athletic Bilbao (H), Sevilla (A)
8) Getafe (52/+8) Gimnastic (H), Celta Vigo (A)
Getafe lost 1-0 away to Villarreal and defeated them 3-0 at home
Getafe are Copa del Rey finalists with Sevilla and will be entered into next season's UEFA Cup

Recreativo Huelvo, Racing Santander, Mallorca, Espanyol, Deportivo and Osasuna are safe and not going anywhere. Meanwhile, down the bottom:

15) Levante (39/-16) Valencia (H), Bilbao (A) CEL BET BIL SOC
16) Real Betis (37/-10) Osasuna (H), Santander (A) LEV BIL SOC CEL
17) Athletic Bilbao (37/-18) Villarreal (A), Levante (H) LEV BET SOC CEL

18) Real Sociedad (33/-15) Santander (H), Valencia (A) LEV BET BIL CEL
19) Celta Vigo (33/-21) Atletico Madrid (A), Getafe (H) LEV BET BIL SOC
20) Gimnastic de Tarragona (25/-32) GONE

Colour codings denote tiebreaker status based on head-to-head results with each named team, with red indicating an irreversible disadvantage, green indicating an inviolate advantage owned, and blue indicating unfinished business (in short, Levante and Athletic Bilbao drew 0-0 at Levante earlier in the season and play at Bilbao on the last day)

Celta Vigo and Real Sociedad could end up level with Levante, but both would lose out to Levante on head-to-head results; it's scarcely possible, and Levante are probably already safe in any case.

Promoted for next season are Valladolid, Almeria and Real Murcia (not to be confused with Ciduad Murcia, who --it so happens-- sit a distant fourth)

So if anybody knows more about how ties for lesser prizes and relegation are broken, I could do with some enLOLightenment...

[Stranded]

This site may be able to help:

http://www.albionroad.com

[RoyalChicagoFC]

Alas...

The bottom three clubs are relegated

Knew that, just don't know the definition.

They're not alone --a lot of tables available online currently (and inaccurately) have Barca in front of Real at the summit by virtue of goal difference.

[RoyalChicagoFC]

The situation in Spain with one match to go

Matchday #38 today, Sunday 17th June, with relegation fixtures from 4:00 PM BST and all others from 8:00 PM; for elegantly detailed scenarios and who-needs-what, dig.

Again, top two finishers to Champions League group stage; third and fourth to Champions League third qualifying round; fifth and sixth to UEFA Cup, plus seventh if Getafe finish in the top six

1) Real Madrid (73/+24) Mallorca (H)
2) Barcelona (73/+41) Gimnastic (A)
Both drew last weekend. Real hold the irreversible tiebreaker edge over Barca based on head-to-head results. Both will finish in the top three

3) Sevilla (71/+30) Villarreal (H)
4) Valencia (65/+15) Real Sociedad (H)
Unchanged after last weekend's results, aside from the fact that Valencia got clobbered away to Levante, finishing with eight men, and will finish in fourth

Top three tiebreakers: Sevilla own the tiebreaker over Real by virtue of an insurmountable goal-difference margin, having defeated them at home and lost away in league play
Sevilla lost away to Barcelona and defeated them at home, so Barca own that tiebreaker by virtue of an insurmountable goal-difference margin
In the event that the top three finish level on points, the order of finish would go Real top, Sevilla second and Barcelona third

5) Real Zaragoza (59/+12) Recreativo Huelva (A)
6) Villarreal (59/+4) Sevilla (A)

7) Atletico Madrid (57/+6) Celta Vigo (H), Osasuna (A)
Atletico tumbled out of the UEFA Cup places as they lost 2-3 to relegation-imperiled Celta Vigo last weekend. Villarreal, 3-1 comeback winners over Athletic Bilbao, supplanted Atletico Madrid in sixth position. Zaragoza held their place as they settled for the draw with visiting Real Madrid

Tiebreakers for fifth thru seventh: Zaragoza defeated Atletico twice in league play, and they defeated Villarreal at home and lost away --so with an insurmountable overall goal difference edge over Villarreal, Zaragoza are large and in charge; Atletico defeated Villarreal twice

Getafe, Copa del Rey finalists with Sevilla and already automatically entered into next season's UEFA Cup by virtue of Sevilla's UEFA qualification, lost to relegated Gimnastic last weekend and tumbled irreversibly out of the frame for a top-six finish, which would have brought seventh into play had Getafe finished there; no dice

Recreativo Huelvo, Racing Santander, Mallorca, Espanyol, Deportivo and Osasuna were safe and not going anywhere headed into last weekend's play. Meanwhile, down the bottom:

15) Levante (42/-14)
Safety assured with last weekend's 4-2 thumping of eight-man Valencia

16) Real Betis (37/-15) Santander (A) BIL CEL SOC
17) Athletic Bilbao (37/-20) Levante (H) BET SOC CEL

18) Celta Vigo (36/-20) Getafe (H) BET BIL SOC
19) Real Sociedad (34/-15) Valencia (A) BET BIL CEL
20) Gimnastic de Tarragona (25/-32) GONE

Tiebreakers for sixteenth thru nineteenth explained: Betis defeated Athletic twice; they shared a win and a loss apiece with Celta; and they drew with and lost to Sociedad. Athletic lost to and drew with Celta, and they drew with and defeated Sociedad. Sociedad drew with and defeated Celta. For an explanation of multiform tiebreakers, click that link up top.

Colour codings are GREEN for an irreversible head-to-head tiebreaker advantage owned over a given club and RED for a tiebreaker disadvantage, and BLUE for all-square --all based on head-to-head league results during the current season

[bassavage]

So if Real and Barca both draw and Sevilla win, what would happen? Real have a better head-to-head than Barca but worse than Sevilla and Barca have a better head-to-head than Sevilla so that surely cancels it all out and means Barca would win the league on goal difference?

Whatever happens tonight, it will be fascinating to watch, it's never a dull game when Real are playing and if it's like the end of last weekend, we're in for a treat.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

So if Real and Barca both draw and Sevilla win, what would happen? Real have a better head-to-head than Barca but worse than Sevilla and Barca have a better head-to-head than Sevilla so that surely cancels it all out and means Barca would win the league on goal difference?

I imagine it goes down to goal difference in the games between the teams (and subsquently goals scored) before it goes to all league game goal difference. So:

Real Madrid 2-0 Barcelona
Barcelona 3-3 Real Madrid
Real Madrid 3-2 Sevilla
Sevilla 2-1 Real Madrid
Barcelona 3-1 Sevilla
Sevilla 2-1 Barcelona

1. Real Madrid Pld 4 Won 2 Drawn 1 Lost 1 For 9 Against 7
2. Sevilla Pld 4 Won 2 Drawn 0 Lost 2 For 7 Against 8
3. Barcelona Pld 4 Won 1 Drawn 1 Lost 2 For 7 Against 8

[RoyalChicagoFC]

Right, then-- Celta Vigo and Real Sociedad are relegated after Sunday's matinee action goes to full time. Rather straightforward stuff, with no rash of sendings-off of the kind seen in last weekend's action.

Real Betis won 0-2 away to Santander, with a brace from Edu in the final ten minutes securing their safety irrespective of events elsewhere. Likewise, Athletic Bilbao turned aside visiting Levante 2-0 to make themselves safe and render happenings below themselves moot.

Those results mean that Celta Vigo are relegated from the top flight for the second time in the last four seasons despite coming back from a goal down to win 2-1 at home over Levante. Real Sociedad will join Celta after a late own-goal from hosts Valencia secured for Sociedad a 3-3 finish to a match in which they scored first before themselves conceding two own-goals --but of course, Betis and Athletic made the entire exercise academic with their own wins. So here it is at the bottom, where all is now said and done:

16) Real Betis (40/-13) SAFE
17) Athletic Bilbao (40/-18) SAFE

18) Celta Vigo (39/-19) DOWN
19) Real Sociedad (35/-15) DOWN
20) Gimnastic (28/-31) LONG GONE

Now then, the business up the table gets under way within the next 90 minutes or so...

So if Real and Barca both draw and Sevilla win, what would happen? Real have a better head-to-head than Barca but worse than Sevilla and Barca have a better head-to-head than Sevilla so that surely cancels it all out and means Barca would win the league on goal difference?

I imagine it goes down to goal difference in the games between the teams (and subsquently goals scored) before it goes to all league game goal difference. So:

Real Madrid 2-0 Barcelona
Barcelona 3-3 Real Madrid
Real Madrid 3-2 Sevilla
Sevilla 2-1 Real Madrid
Barcelona 3-1 Sevilla
Sevilla 2-1 Barcelona

1. Real Madrid Pld 4 Won 2 Drawn 1 Lost 1 For 9 Against 7
2. Sevilla Pld 4 Won 2 Drawn 0 Lost 2 For 7 Against 8
3. Barcelona Pld 4 Won 1 Drawn 1 Lost 2 For 7 Against 8

I think it's actually a tad simpler in this particular instance, with, as you say, ye olde dreaded "virtual mini-league" coming into play --in which Real win with 5 points, Sevilla place second with 4 and Barcelona with 3; since that splits 'em, goal-difference and goals scored in the mini-league are moot.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

1. Real Madrid Pld 4 Won 2 Drawn 1 Lost 1 For 9 Against 7
2. Sevilla Pld 4 Won 2 Drawn 0 Lost 2 For 7 Against 8
3. Barcelona Pld 4 Won 1 Drawn 1 Lost 2 For 7 Against 8

I think it's actually a tad simpler in this particular instance, with, as you say, ye olde dreaded "virtual mini-league" coming into play --in which Real win with 5 points, Sevilla place second with 4 and Barcelona with 3

Actually, its 7, 6 and 4 respectively

[RoyalChicagoFC]

Soz!

Must've been channelling my great-great-grandpappy*, Nigel Simon Throckmorton-Codworthy of Horsmonden, Kent --who of course followed the game back when it was two points for a win...

*fictionally speaking, of course

[T.R.O.L.I.]

ALOL

[T.R.O.L.I.]

Real currently 1-0 down and Barca 1-0 up!

[T.R.O.L.I.]

Barca 2-0 up now. Madrid will definitely need a win tonight (still 1-0 down) and are facing an uphill battle now that RvN has gone off injured.

EDIT - Barca go 3-0 up. Cracking free-kick from Ronaldinho.

[RoyalChicagoFC]

In the UEFA Cup scrambLOLe, Zaragoza 1-0 down away to Recreativo but only fall to sixth as Villarreal and Atletico are 0-0 in their respective matches.

EDIT --Atletico one-up away to Osasuna, so that knocks Zaragoza into seventh, bumps Atletico to fifth and returns Villarreal to sixth...

[T.R.O.L.I.]

Barca 4-0 up now. Sevilla are losing 1-0 at home too.