A Steward's viewpoint

[Dirk Gently]

That's as maybe - but with kids' tickets at £5 there were more than the average number of little people there.

How many of them couldn't see? I saw quite a few who might as well have not been there.

[working class hero]

That's as maybe - but with kids' tickets at £5 there were more than the average number of little people there.

How many of them couldn't see? I saw quite a few who might as well have not been there.

There are a lot of kids who would be wasting their money if standing were allowed. Similarly rather a lot of older fans would miss out. Still - why worry as long as the 14 - 28 year olds get exactly what they want?

In fact if you drive out the elderly, the kids and the families the club won't need to bother with an extension. And the lost income can be made up by doubling prices for those who are left. Oh and if some are priced out then the shortfall can be made up by further price hikes.

Perhaps the club are rather more clued up than those who are throwing toys out of their play pen?

[Platypuss]

I'm personally pro standing, but don't think it's just at Reading where you get told to sit down. It happens everywhere

Well, apart from the away end of the MadStad, obviously.

[Platypuss]

Thre is a lot of LOLable posturing on this thread, and at the end of the day we KNOW the rules - sit down unless it's a moment of high excitement. Acting like a twat in Y26 isn't going to make anything happen where it really matters.

However, if the club truly want fans to comply then they MUST be seen to be acting equally towards the away fans.

It might be "harder", but tough - do it or be seen to be hypocrites unworthy of the respect that is needed to really make change happen.

I perfectly understand where you are coming from and I have asked the club to be open about how many away fans the eject - but they are reluctant to do so. Their way of dealing with away fans is to do so without winding up the rest of the away fans - which we can certainly understand as Reading fans up the noise etc when one of ours is marched out at an away game.

So your quote should have a different emphasis - that if the club truly wants fans to comply then they MUST BE SEEN to be acting equally towards the awy fans.
.

Well yes, and I'd said just as much in a response to you on the other thread a couple of days ago:

"Is it not an accepted tenet that justice must be seen to be done?

As I said earlier, if RFC are worried about compliance then they must be seen to be acting equally against both away and home fans.

Until this happens then RFC will fail to gain acceptance and will increasingly lose trust."

I am happy to keep trying for the information but would some of you mail me at info@star-reading.org asking for this so that I can produce more than this thread as evidence for the need to have this info.

You have email.

[Volvicanus]

This might be entirely fanciful on my part, but it has occurred to me that perhaps one of the reasons that RFC is being (or trying) to be particularly strict on this is that almost any of the standing exacerbates the disability site line issue, for which they don't seem to have any real answers or solutions at this moment and for which I suspect they actually might be in some deep shit if someone decided to take it on as a legal DDA matter.

[Royal Lady]

I didn't think those who stand in Y25/Y26 stood in front of the disabled section. I thought it was more to the left of the disabled section, and at the back.

[RoyalBlue]

This might be entirely fanciful on my part, but it has occurred to me that perhaps one of the reasons that RFC is being (or trying) to be particularly strict on this is that almost any of the standing exacerbates the disability site line issue, for which they don't seem to have any real answers or solutions at this moment and for which I suspect they actually might be in some deep shit if someone decided to take it on as a legal DDA matter.

Please don't help them to come up with more ridiculous excuses as to why they feel the need to come down really hard on the issue, whereas most other clubs appear to take a more lenient/common sense approach!

[Forbury Lion]

Standing in front of wheelchair users is not on.

Perhaps it isn't too late to ask the club to consider improving the disabled areas when they extend the stand, perhaps that way disable fans will get a good view even when those in front of them stand at moments of excitement.

[Royal Lady]

They don't stand in front of the disabled section in the East Stand, to my knowledge. They moved about 3 rows of fans and left those seats empty didn't they, plus only helpers sit in front of the disabled area.

[Skin]

Standing in front of wheelchair users is not on.

...Which is why it doesn't really happen and they have the spare rows in front in case it does. These cases against standing are really flawed.

[RoyalBlue]

They don't stand in front of the disabled section in the East Stand, to my knowledge. They moved about 3 rows of fans and left those seats empty didn't they, plus only helpers sit in front of the disabled area.

Pretty sure that they changed their mind about the empty three rows as soon as we got promoted to the promised land. Clearly they couldn't bear the thought of all those empty seats at Premiership prices!

[Royal Lady]

Oh did they? Well, anyway, it's still rubbish, because I sit to the right of the disabled section and have never seen anyone persistently standing in front of it. The only standing I ever see is at the back of Y25/26.

[Dirk Gently]

They don't stand in front of the disabled section in the East Stand, to my knowledge. They moved about 3 rows of fans and left those seats empty didn't they, plus only helpers sit in front of the disabled area.

Pretty sure that they changed their mind about the empty three rows as soon as we got promoted to the promised land. Clearly they couldn't bear the thought of all those empty seats at Premiership prices!

Those seats are generally used for Club employees and other people who they know - ideally people who they can trust not to stand, but in practice it doesn't always work out like that.

[Volvicanus]

I don't think that those rows are empty anymore and with the increasing demand for tickets, they aren't even filled with disabled helpers most of the time. And those rows aren't even the whole problem. Believe me, the whole issue certainly still exists and still is one that RFC must have some serious concerns about.

When a goal is about to be scored in the North stand, everyone behind the goal stands up. This effectively blocks the view of the goal from the corners so then those people stand up. Out of all the North end goals this season, I can honestly say that I've only seen about two. People moan about whether or not they can stand or sit when they watch the game, when at this point, I'd just be bloody thankful if I could see it at all. And it's not just me. Those of us that are in wheelchairs are getting really really fed up with the whole thing as it's obvious at this point that the 'no standing' policy does nothing to address the disabled section problems. And yes, I genuinely think that RFC was hoping that it would.

[Platypuss]

I am pretty sure RFC won't do anyhting before sorting it properly (fingers crossed) with the stadium extension.

Of course standing isn't actually banned per se - standing at moments of high excitement (!) is permissable and so enforcing absolute no-standing is impossible.

[Jerry St Clair]

There are a lot of kids who would be wasting their money if standing were allowed. Similarly rather a lot of older fans would miss out. Still - why worry as long as the 14 - 28 year olds get exactly what they want?

In fact if you drive out the elderly, the kids and the families the club won't need to bother with an extension. And the lost income can be made up by doubling prices for those who are left. Oh and if some are priced out then the shortfall can be made up by further price hikes.

Perhaps the club are rather more clued up than those who are throwing toys out of their play pen?

But the obdurate enforcement of this rule is actually causing the angst int he first place.

I want to stand, but not at the expense of those who want to sit. Please stop using the ignorant attitudes of SOME of our more immature support as a basis for your argument against standing.

It seems perfectly simple to me. Areas of stadiums should be designated as standing areas. Then everyone knows where they, er, stand.

[STAR Liaison]

RFC seem to want to toe the line, fair enough, but is it really neccessary at the cost of causing animosity like this between stewards and fans alike?
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but if the LFA haven't taken any significant action against home fans at other clubs, why would they want to with us?

The trouble is that the rules are enforced by the FLA AND the local council so there is no consistency across the country.

We will be attending the next Safety Advisory Group which is where these matters are discussed and RFC is informed how they are expected to enforce the rules and so hope to be able to influence it - or at the least understand how constrained RFC really is.

[Forbury Lion]

It seems perfectly simple to me. Areas of stadiums should be designated as standing areas. Then everyone knows where they, er, stand.

If the club ever had a standing section it wouldn't surprise me if they placed it in front of the disabled fans

Seriously though, If a portion of the North Stand could be standing it would probably attract the fans who attract the most attention near the scoreboard, thereby keeping them as far away from the away end as possible and making things easier to police.

[Matt de K]

It seems perfectly simple to me. Areas of stadiums should be designated as standing areas. Then everyone knows where they, er, stand.

If the club ever had a standing section it wouldn't surprise me if they placed it in front of the disabled fans

Seriously though, If a portion of the North Stand could be standing it would probably attract the fans who attract the most attention near the scoreboard, thereby keeping them as far away from the away end as possible and making things easier to police.

Good call!!! However there'll be someone who doesn't like it

[The 17 Bus]

It seems perfectly simple to me. Areas of stadiums should be designated as standing areas. Then everyone knows where they, er, stand.

If the club ever had a standing section it wouldn't surprise me if they placed it in front of the disabled fans

Seriously though, If a portion of the North Stand could be standing it would probably attract the fans who attract the most attention near the scoreboard, thereby keeping them as far away from the away end as possible and making things easier to police.

Correct if standing was ever re introduced it would be an area behind the goals., nice and wet in the rain as well.