Karl Henry - tackle

[Alan Partridge]

He's started the season well to be fair and had a decent game or two for England recently but for me he was one of the worst players in a shambolic World Cup. I hate all this 'holding player' nonsense, but if someone is going to play in the midfield and be hell bent on being defensive only then he needs to be mobile, too be able to tackle/break up play and then pass it well. He failed on all those counts in South Africa. Which is where someone like Henry or Cattermole ( I really like Huddlestone as a player and he might be a better option than those 2) come into the reckoning. It all depends on what system they play really. Van Bommell played that role for the Netherlands and whilst he was criticised by some, did a pretty invaluable job in there stopping good sides playing.

[Ian Royal]

Somewhere in the rules terminology it says if the player isn't in control of himself/ endangering the opponent, Henry's falls into both categories. He's not in control of that challenge. The greasiness on the top of the surface naturally makes the slide that much quicker but even so there is no way he can stop himself nor pull out of the challenge. Once he gets nowhere near the ball (i think there is a case to say even if he got some of it he could still have gone) he's just got to go. I agree with those saying there's no malice in it ut he certainly did endanger the opponent with it, he's literally gone in thinking i can win that and stamp some authority on this game but he's mistimed it and it looks awful.

I think this is spot on. No way he can be in control with that sort of lunge, at that pace, at that sort of distance. I think a red could be justified whether contact with the player is made or not.

[YateleyRoyal]

Sorry, but the way I see it the ball has to at least change direction for it to be a genuine tackle. In that case, the ball stayed exactly the same. Therefore the player, regardless of whether he meant to or not, took the man before the ball, and that is a yellow card offence. Given the severity of the challenge, I think that was what made it a red.

You see it with keepers all the time, they take the man out and they usually get booked and concede a penalty, which is almost as bad as a red.

[prostak]

Mods - is there any way of forcing people to at least skim-read this before 'contributing' to this thread? For a start, the notion of 'playing the ball' is irrelevant.

[Thomas L'Heureux]

...Which is where someone like Henry or Cattermole ( I really like Huddlestone as a player and he might be a better option than those 2) come into the reckoning...

I'm glad you mentioned Lee Cattermole's name there. I think he will be a hell of a player when (or if) he develops a more experience head. I'm not sure if it's out-and-out dirt with Cattermore though, I prefer to think of it more as over-enthusiasm, but if he can learn to rein himself in a bit and play close to the limit of the rules rather than over them, he can be a hell of a player - the sort any would love to play alongside.

Karl Henry is a dirty bastard, and McCarthy has clearly told him to go out and roughen up the opposition. The problem is Henry has seen that to be the green light to become reckless and over the top. I think you need a bit more sense when tackling hard and that's something I hope Cattermole develops. He is very young, and quite naive still, but his qualities don't go unnoticed.

[Big Foot]

He's started the season well to be fair and had a decent game or two for England recently but for me he was one of the worst players in a shambolic World Cup. I hate all this 'holding player' nonsense, but if someone is going to play in the midfield and be hell bent on being defensive only then he needs to be mobile, too be able to tackle/break up play and then pass it well. He failed on all those counts in South Africa. Which is where someone like Henry or Cattermole ( I really like Huddlestone as a player and he might be a better option than those 2) come into the reckoning. It all depends on what system they play really. Van Bommell played that role for the Netherlands and whilst he was criticised by some, did a pretty invaluable job in there stopping good sides playing.

In fairness, he wasn't fit at the World Cup - Capello was desperate for him to join the squad, even extending his fitness deadlines by an extra 24-36 hours

[Seal]

I thought De Jong's was worse. Henry's looks terrible because of the pace he went in at and the way Gomez flipped in the air. De Jong's was more viscous because his second leg is the one that does the damage, basically wrapping around Ben Arfa's and making a leg break all the more likely.

Both reds without dispute, but I'd put Henry's down to over enthusiasm and De Jong as pure thuggery trying to intimidate a skilful opponent.

[Handsome Man]

Both were reds. As was that one which happened in injury time of a Stoke(?) game recently. As was the one where the 12-year-old ref sent Cahill off for kicking somebody half way up the back of the leg. The TV media has changed a little recently. There was a time when any decision by a ref to send a player off was a bad one and refs who kept their cards in their pockets were somehow better. Now at least there is some understanding that these are bad tackles that deserve punishment.

I do have a little sympathy with players when they break Arsenal players legs - Eduardo for example was feinting and trying to trick the player into a foul. If a defender goes for the ball and a Brazilian-style trick means it is no longer there it isn't really a foul.

[PlasticRoyale]

Football's gone soft

[brendywendy]

After seeing De Jong's challenge, I'm amazed he didn't even see yellow, let alone red. No wonder he's been dropped from the full Dutch squad.

the tackle was a bit hairy, but he took the ball cleanly, the speed of collision was just high, and the trailing leg did the damage. there was no malicious intent imo. the reaction from the dutch, and the british media is way over the top in my opinion and i think if you send players off for tackles where you take the ball, & not from behind then you ruin the game.

if arsene wenger et al want a game without tackling, form your own association, make your own rules, and create your own game - call it gay ball or summink.

[prostak]

if arsene wenger et al want a game without tackling, form your own association, make your own rules, and create your own game - call it gay ball or summink.

Compare and contrast: Wenger's polemics against perceived dirty play, versus this and the fact that every successful Arsenal team under him has had the odd agricultural-style player. Gallas, Keown, Vieira... In fact, you could argue many of the 'Invincibles' squad were rougher types, right down to Lehmann in goal.