Who was the worst England manager, Taylor or McClaren?

[papereyes]

"Supposed" being the operative word.

It wasn't just failing to qualify for 1994 WC that makes Taylor worse for me but taking over a side that had reached the Semis of Italia 90 playing some decent football and turning back into the old kick and rush style and failing to get out of the group stage of the Euro 92 finals.

A bunch of players who had one eye on retirement, no-one of suitable quality to replace them, severe injury problems before the tournament depriving the squad of any right backs and at least one creative midfielder.
.

And McClaren hasn't had his squad decimated by injuries ?

I'm not defending McClaren as he's been pretty appalling but Taylor had twice as long a reign and the downward spiral just continued, all in a style that was truly appalling to watch.

Its a fair point about ageing players but i believe that Italia 90 showed that we could play a more sophisticated (for want of a better word) game and compete but instead of continuing in that vein , Taylor dismantled it all and we went back to kick and rush. And like McClaren when he made big decisions they tended to bite him on the arse.

I just think Taylor got a bit of a rough deal given the players and circumstances.

Do I not like that

mmm. Maybe not the best link ever.

[TBM]

A bunch of players who had one eye on retirement, no-one of suitable quality to replace them, severe injury problems before the tournament depriving the squad of any right backs and at least one creative midfielder.
.

And McClaren hasn't had his squad decimated by injuries ?

I'm not defending McClaren as he's been pretty appalling but Taylor had twice as long a reign and the downward spiral just continued, all in a style that was truly appalling to watch.

Its a fair point about ageing players but i believe that Italia 90 showed that we could play a more sophisticated (for want of a better word) game and compete but instead of continuing in that vein , Taylor dismantled it all and we went back to kick and rush. And like McClaren when he made big decisions they tended to bite him on the arse.

I just think Taylor got a bit of a rough deal given the players and circumstances.

Do I not like that

mmm. Maybe not the best link ever.

I had that tracksuit

[Dirk Gently]

A bunch of players who had one eye on retirement, no-one of suitable quality to replace them, severe injury problems before the tournament depriving the squad of any right backs and at least one creative midfielder.
.

And McClaren hasn't had his squad decimated by injuries ?

I'm not defending McClaren as he's been pretty appalling but Taylor had twice as long a reign and the downward spiral just continued, all in a style that was truly appalling to watch.

Its a fair point about ageing players but i believe that Italia 90 showed that we could play a more sophisticated (for want of a better word) game and compete but instead of continuing in that vein , Taylor dismantled it all and we went back to kick and rush. And like McClaren when he made big decisions they tended to bite him on the arse.

I just think Taylor got a bit of a rough deal given the players and circumstances.

Do I not like that

mmm. Maybe not the best link ever.

Just 2 words : Carlton Palmer.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

Just 2 words : Carlton Palmer.

"Fcuking hell, Carlton, can you not knock it"

[Vision]

And McClaren hasn't had his squad decimated by injuries ?

I'm not defending McClaren as he's been pretty appalling but Taylor had twice as long a reign and the downward spiral just continued, all in a style that was truly appalling to watch.

Its a fair point about ageing players but i believe that Italia 90 showed that we could play a more sophisticated (for want of a better word) game and compete but instead of continuing in that vein , Taylor dismantled it all and we went back to kick and rush. And like McClaren when he made big decisions they tended to bite him on the arse.

I just think Taylor got a bit of a rough deal given the players and circumstances.

Do I not like that

mmm. Maybe not the best link ever.

Just 2 words : Carlton Palmer.

Frankly watching Steven Gerrard charge around the pitch yesterday like a hyperactive 7 year old made me pine for the days of old "cartoon face"

[6ft Kerplunk]

Just 2 words : Carlton Palmer.

"Fcuking hell, Carlton, can you not knock it"

I'd like to think that an England manager may have noticed that before he gave him an international cap.

[Oi Oi Saveloy]

McClarn by an absolute country mile.

Taylor did get us to the Euros in 92, albeit we were shite at them, but no worse than England were in Euro 88 under Bobby Robson.

Taylor inherited a team that had hit a high after Italia 90 and had to build a new team from scratch, and to be fair, there simply was not players good enough at his his disposal. It says it all when Carlton Palmer is your first choice central midfielder. Although I think Taylor was old fashioned, he was not as half as everyone makes out and was significantly better than Steve McCalren, who, to be fair has inherited a crop of exceptional players and failed to make the best use of them.

[T.O.G.]

No contest McClaren complete oxf*rd

[Ian Royal]

Taylor by light years.

If McLaren had had Owen or Rooney available and not played them then he may be comparable.

'94 Poland, San Marino and Turkey = rubbish Norway & Netherlands = good

'07 Andorra = Rubbish, Macedonia = poor, Israel, Croatia & Russia = good.

Or do you call a side that hasn't lost at home in God knows how long rubbish? England can't even manage that feat, so what does that make us? Diabolical?

[Rawlie19]

Taylor by light years.

If McLaren had had Owen or Rooney available and not played them then he may be comparable.

'94 Poland, San Marino and Turkey = rubbish Norway & Netherlands = good

'07 Andorra = Rubbish, Macedonia = poor, Israel, Croatia & Russia = good.

Or do you call a side that hasn't lost at home in God knows how long rubbish? England can't even manage that feat, so what does that make us? Diabolical?

Who did Taylor have available of that quality that he didn't play? I'll say taking off Lineka in what was going to be his final match when he was chasing a record was pretty dumb, but I can't remember what you're pointing at. I was young at the time...

[Rawlie19]

I've got to say that clip is funny. I'd forgotten a lot of that. Giving it large everytime the lino came near him, then "sorry, sorry my 4th official, sorry, please, I won't say anything else, please lelt me continue to watch the game..."

[Ian Royal]

Taylor by light years.

If McLaren had had Owen or Rooney available and not played them then he may be comparable.

'94 Poland, San Marino and Turkey = rubbish Norway & Netherlands = good

'07 Andorra = Rubbish, Macedonia = poor, Israel, Croatia & Russia = good.

Or do you call a side that hasn't lost at home in God knows how long rubbish? England can't even manage that feat, so what does that make us? Diabolical?

Who did Taylor have available of that quality that he didn't play? I'll say taking off Lineka in what was going to be his final match when he was chasing a record was pretty dumb, but I can't remember what you're pointing at. I was young at the time...

that was exactly what I was pointing at, I just couldn't remember if he took him off or didn't play him. I was also fairly young, and not very into football. In Fact Graeme Taylor's escapades with England nearly killed my interest in the game. Reading's play off excitement saving me and bringing me into the Royal fold.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Taylor was football's answer to MENSA, compared to that retard McClown.



did Middlesboro ever get a pay-off?

[WTRoyal]

They're both blatantly incompetent homos...

I suspect they're blatantly incompetent homos because they're heterosexual.

Although they do have some similarities to homos because they're both "sh*t managers".

[From Despair To Where?]

Taylor by light years.

If McLaren had had Owen or Rooney available and not played them then he may be comparable.

'94 Poland, San Marino and Turkey = rubbish Norway & Netherlands = good

'07 Andorra = Rubbish, Macedonia = poor, Israel, Croatia & Russia = good.

Or do you call a side that hasn't lost at home in God knows how long rubbish? England can't even manage that feat, so what does that make us? Diabolical?

Paul Robinson
Gary Neville
Ashley Cole
John Terry
Ledley King
Michael Carrick
Frank Lampard
Steven Gerrard
Stuart Downing
Wayne Rooney
Peter Crouch

Pretty strong lineup if you ask me. Ok, you might swap Joe Cole for Downing, Rio Ferdinand for Ledley King and Michael Owen for Crouch but it's still a strong team. That's the line up that failed to score at home to Macedonia, the result that was ultimately responsible for England's failure to qualify.

What Taylor's team lacked in ability they made up for with passion and commitment. They never slipped up against weak teams. The likes of Pearce, Adams or Gascoigne would not go missing when playing for England in the manner that Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney consistently have. Adams would organise things, Pearce would put the boot in where needed and Gascoigne would grab the game by the scruff of the neck and try to make things happen. What grates is that England have a pool of players with bags of ability but who don't give a toss and a manager incapable of motivating them. Tactically naive as well. What sort of idiot chooses a crucial qualifier away to the strongest team in their group to try out an untested and unfamiliar formation.

Are Isreal a great team? No. Maybe they have such a long unbeaten home record because they play with passion and commitment and play for the shirt.

[Ian Royal]

pretty strong line up except no right winger what so ever, a striker who hadn't scored an international goal for years, two central midfielders with lots of talent who consistently fail to shine, especially together, a striker who is just about capable of scoring easy goals against crap opposition, but is totally misused as a target man. a seriously aging right back, and a not really holding midfielder known for being fairly good at passing. Which isn't likely to be useful when people are gong to be lumping balls at Crouch's head all night.

Oh plus dodgy Robinson and King.

May have big names in it. Not a strong line up.

[From Despair To Where?]

But a lineup that should be capable of scoring at home to Macedonia surely?

No right winger? Why didn't MacLaren select one? Two cental midfielders with lots of talent who can;t play together. Why did MacLaren select them together? Crouch misused as a target man. why did MacLaren use him as a target man? A seriously aging right back. Why did Maclaren select him then?? A not really holding midfielder? Why did MacLaren play him as a holding midfielder? I seem to remember Robinson's dodgy period started after this game. At the time, he was widely regarded as the obvious choice. So Rooney was a striker who hadn't scored an international goal for years. In your previous post you use the possibility of him being available and not being fielded as a potential cock up. Rooney was available in that game and Maclaren played him. You can't have it both ways. you can't say the possible failure to select Rooney would be a failing and then deride him as a striker who hasn't scored an international goal for two years when he does play, which is the clear implication of your two posts.

The selection of players and tactics is the responsibility of the manager. If, as you suggest, he is trying to fit square pegs into round holes then surely it's his failing. He should select the players to fit the formation, not the formation to fit the players. Even with the drawbacks of the selected team, is a 0-0 draw with Macedonia acceptable? As I said, a Graham Taylor side would not have lost to a team like Macedonia. When it mattered, he stuck to tried and tested formations and tactics and was beaten by genuinely better teams.

[Rawlie19]

But a lineup that should be capable of scoring at home to Macedonia surely?

No right winger? Why didn't MacLaren select one? Two cental midfielders with lots of talent who can;t play together. Why did MacLaren select them together? Crouch misused as a target man. why did MacLaren use him as a target man? A seriously aging right back. Why did Maclaren select him then?? A not really holding midfielder? Why did MacLaren play him as a holding midfielder? I seem to remember Robinson's dodgy period started after this game. At the time, he was widely regarded as the obvious choice. So Rooney was a striker who hadn't scored an international goal for years. In your previous post you use the possibility of him being available and not being fielded as a potential cock up. Rooney was available in that game and Maclaren played him. You can't have it both ways. you can't say the possible failure to select Rooney would be a failing and then deride him as a striker who hasn't scored an international goal for two years when he does play, which is the clear implication of your two posts.

The selection of players and tactics is the responsibility of the manager. If, as you suggest, he is trying to fit square pegs into round holes then surely it's his failing. He should select the players to fit the formation, not the formation to fit the players. Even with the drawbacks of the selected team, is a 0-0 draw with Macedonia acceptable? As I said, a Graham Taylor side would not have lost to a team like Macedonia. When it mattered, he stuck to tried and tested formations and tactics and was beaten by genuinely better teams.

And a ref who didn't know when he should be sending a player off.

[Diddyroyal]

No contest McClaren complete oxf*rd

agreed

[.:BigDaveInTheDungeon:.]

No contest McClaren complete oxf*rd

agreed

if you think about it all recent england managers have apprently under performed, maybe it wasn't really all their fault.