Who was the worst England manager, Taylor or McClaren?

SpaceCruiser · by **SpaceCruiser** » 22 Nov 2007 13:49

So now, for the first time since 1994 we failed to qualify, who do you think was the worst manager for failing to qualify for a major tournament?

Just for comparsion, here are their records....

Graham Taylor's record: P38 W18 D13 L7 F62 F32

Steve McClaren's record P18 W9 D4 L5 F32 A12

Graham Taylor's final table where he failed to qualify:

1 Norway P10 W7 D2 L1 G25 A5 GD+20 pts 16
2 Netherlands 10 6 3 1 29 9 +20 15
3 England 10 5 3 2 26 9 +17 13
4 Poland 10 3 2 5 10 15 -5 8
5 Turkey 10 3 1 6 11 19 -8 7
6 San Marino 10 0 1 9 2 46 -44 1

Steve McClaren's final table:

1 Croatia P12 W9 D2 L1 F28 A8 GD20 Pts29
2 Russia 12 7 3 2 18 7 11 24
3 England 12 7 2 3 24 7 17 23
4 Israel 12 7 2 3 20 12 8 23
5 FYR Macedonia 12 4 2 6 12 12 0 14
6 Estonia 12 2 1 9 5 21 -16 7
7 Andorra 12 0 0 12 2 42 -40 0

Huntley & Palmer · by **Huntley & Palmer** » 22 Nov 2007 13:50

McLaren by a country mile

Dirk Gently · by **Dirk Gently** » 22 Nov 2007 13:52

That's a bit last asking what's worse, syphilis or gonorrhoea!

Barry the bird boggler · by **Barry the bird boggler** » 22 Nov 2007 13:55

McLOL I think given the supposed talent at his disposal and the fact that his group is easier that Mr Taylors in my opinion

Baines · by **Baines** » 22 Nov 2007 14:11

Dirk Gently wrote:That's a bit last asking what's worse, syphilis or gonorrhoea!

Either would be an appropriate description of McLaren, given that he ended up being England manager because of Sven's fukking.

SpaceCruiser · by **SpaceCruiser** » 22 Nov 2007 14:17

Barry the bird boggler wrote:the fact that his group is easier that Mr Taylors in my opinion

I'd dispute that. McClaren had two extra games to play than Taylor did and the only easy games were against Andorra and Estonia.

Turkey wasn't that great back in 1994. Taylor only lost two and didn't qualify, if McClaren had only lost two, he would have qualified.

Both are really bad, but I think Taylor is the worst as he failed to convert the draws into wins.

Vision · by **Vision** » 22 Nov 2007 14:17

Barry the bird boggler wrote:McLOL I think given the supposed talent at his disposal and the fact that his group is easier that Mr Taylors in my opinion

"Supposed" being the operative word.

It wasn't just failing to qualify for 1994 WC that makes Taylor worse for me but taking over a side that had reached the Semis of Italia 90 playing some decent football and turning back into the old kick and rush style and failing to get out of the group stage of the Euro 92 finals.

Dr Hfuhruhurr · by **Dr Hfuhruhurr** » 22 Nov 2007 14:19

It all depends who came up with that sloppy formation last night. If it was who I thought I was, then Im voting for Venables.

Dr Hfuhruhurr · by **Dr Hfuhruhurr** » 22 Nov 2007 14:24

In fact Russia arent that good - but Croatia are. We should have qualified.

But Taylor was worst, simply for the reasons that Vision gives. Mclaren hasnt been in the job long enough to have had that sort of effect.

SpaceCruiser · by **SpaceCruiser** » 22 Nov 2007 14:24

If Turkey was such a top team back in 1994, then how did we thrash them 4-0 at home and 2-0 away?

Dr Hfuhruhurr · by **Dr Hfuhruhurr** » 22 Nov 2007 14:24

SpaceCruiser wrote:If Turkey was such a top team back in 1994, then how did we thrash them 4-0 at home and 2-0 away?

Turkey werent very good in 1994, in fact they were little more than poor.

Yorkshire Royal · by **Yorkshire Royal** » 22 Nov 2007 14:26

They're both blatantly incompetent homos...

papereyes · by **papereyes** » 22 Nov 2007 14:26

Vision wrote:
Barry the bird boggler wrote:McLOL I think given the supposed talent at his disposal and the fact that his group is easier that Mr Taylors in my opinion
"Supposed" being the operative word.

It wasn't just failing to qualify for 1994 WC that makes Taylor worse for me but taking over a side that had reached the Semis of Italia 90 playing some decent football and turning back into the old kick and rush style and failing to get out of the group stage of the Euro 92 finals.

A bunch of players who had one eye on retirement, no-one of suitable quality to replace them, severe injury problems before the tournament depriving the squad of any right backs and at least one creative midfielder.

There's a good article online somewhere that points all this out. That said, Taylor didn't help himself with Cowans, Sinton et al.

Taylor had to play four TOP teams in Holland, Poland, Norway and Turkey

Not in 1994. Mind you, that doesn't excuse the journalism before the games in 2002/3 where all that was mentioned was a 8-0 win in the 80s. I don't think Poland were that good either.

Shaka · by **Shaka** » 22 Nov 2007 14:28

Dr Hfuhruhurr wrote:
SpaceCruiser wrote:If Turkey was such a top team back in 1994, then how did we thrash them 4-0 at home and 2-0 away?
Turkey werent very good in 1994, in fact they were little more than poor.

So poor that they even drew to San Marino 0-0.

SpaceCruiser · by **SpaceCruiser** » 22 Nov 2007 14:30

Another thing, if Poland were a top team in 1994, then how come they only managed to beat San Marino 1-0 at home? Our away game in Poland was poor as we only managed to draw 1-1 there.

Also Turkey only managed a 0-0 draw in San Marino.

Vision · by **Vision** » 22 Nov 2007 14:31

Ideal wrote:
Barry the bird boggler wrote:the fact that his group is easier that Mr Taylors in my opinion
I agree.
Taylor had to play four TOP teams in Holland, Poland, Norway and Turkey
McClaren had only two in Russia and Croatia.

The fact is this groups miserable opponents were a lot easier than Taylor's opponents.

Turkey and Poland were not "Top teams" in the early 90's by any stretch of the imagination. Poland were in the middle of a serious downturn and Turkey hadn't qualified for a major tournament for over 30 years.

6ft Kerplunk · by **6ft Kerplunk** » 22 Nov 2007 14:33

Ideal wrote: Taylor had to play four TOP teams in Holland, Poland, Norway and Turkey

I'm going to agrue with that a bit. If you take a look at the FIFA ranking for Mar '94. Norway 2nd, Holland 9th, England 12th, Poland 24th and Turkey 51st. There is no way that Poland or Turkey were top teams at that time. It was a three horse race and we finished third, much as we did this time.

TBM · by **TBM** » 22 Nov 2007 14:35

SpaceCruiser wrote:Another thing, if Poland were a top team in 1994, then how come they only managed to beat San Marino 1-0 at home? Our away game in Poland was poor as we only managed to draw 1-1 there.

Also Turkey only managed a 0-0 draw in San Marino.

So you're saying we were a poor team in 94 too?

Vision · by **Vision** » 22 Nov 2007 14:38

papereyes wrote:
Vision wrote:
Barry the bird boggler wrote:McLOL I think given the supposed talent at his disposal and the fact that his group is easier that Mr Taylors in my opinion
"Supposed" being the operative word.

It wasn't just failing to qualify for 1994 WC that makes Taylor worse for me but taking over a side that had reached the Semis of Italia 90 playing some decent football and turning back into the old kick and rush style and failing to get out of the group stage of the Euro 92 finals.
A bunch of players who had one eye on retirement, no-one of suitable quality to replace them, severe injury problems before the tournament depriving the squad of any right backs and at least one creative midfielder.
.

And McClaren hasn't had his squad decimated by injuries ?

I'm not defending McClaren as he's been pretty appalling but Taylor had twice as long a reign and the downward spiral just continued, all in a style that was truly appalling to watch.

Its a fair point about ageing players but i believe that Italia 90 showed that we could play a more sophisticated (for want of a better word) game and compete but instead of continuing in that vein , Taylor dismantled it all and we went back to kick and rush. And like McClaren when he made big decisions they tended to bite him on the arse.

SpaceCruiser · by **SpaceCruiser** » 22 Nov 2007 14:39

TBM wrote:
SpaceCruiser wrote:Another thing, if Poland were a top team in 1994, then how come they only managed to beat San Marino 1-0 at home? Our away game in Poland was poor as we only managed to draw 1-1 there.

Also Turkey only managed a 0-0 draw in San Marino.
So you're saying we were a poor team in 94 too?

Well, we didn't qualify, so, yes. Injuries didn't help.