"Vile chanting"

[Ian Royal]

I don't think yid is offensive fwiw.

Unless you're Jewish that doesn't really matter.

So I can't find nigger offensive because I'm not black?

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.

[swansea jack]

I've never been to the Lane or even at a game with their away fans but presume, knowing a few Spurs fans, that they regularly sing 'Yid Army'? If so, and it is deemed a racist chant, then have Spurs ever done anything about it?

[Archie's penalty]

I've never been to the Lane or even at a game with their away fans but presume, knowing a few Spurs fans, that they regularly sing 'Yid Army'? If so, and it is deemed a racist chant, then have Spurs ever done anything about it?

Tonight I heard that at Spurs you cannot take banners marked with 'yid army' into the ground.

[Dirk Gently]

What the above posts demonstrate most vividly is just how difficult it is to define where the line of what is and isn't acceptable should be drawn - in fact, everyone has their own "line".

[Rex]

"Sol, Sol, wherever you may be, not long now until lunacy, and we won't give a f*** when you're hanging from a tree, you Judas c*** with HIV".

I'd say that was a personal attack and in respect of content - classed as vile.

In view of the FA coming down on clubs and it's supporters concerning the content of chants, also in direct correlation the players on the pitch need to be mindful of not inciting such instances. Ex club allegances and the direct inciting of the opposition support, though rare, need to be regulated.

Some chants are what i would class as inoffensive, others inappropriate and others as vile and sometimes embarrassing. Regulating and penalising a club for the actions of the support is not so clear cut as the FA seem to think it is. There will always be occasions of a minority of people who turn up to games who have no affiliation with a club.

[Dirk Gently]

In Adebayor's disciplinary hearing last week, one of the pleas for mitigation for his behaviour was the level of the personal attacks he had been subjected to by Arsenal supporters.

In a perfect world he'd have ignored it, but we're not in a perfect world and players are still human beings..... and chanting seems to get ever more personal as players are celebrities and supporters know more and more about their personal lives.

Having said that, back in the 70s when Stan Bowles's wife left him opposing supporters chanted "Stanley, Stanley, where your wife?" so this is nothing new.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Also chanted Stanley Stanley i shagged your wife
Stanley I shagged your wife.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

In a perfect world he'd have ignored it, but we're not in a perfect world and players are still human beings..... and chanting seems to get ever more personal as players are celebrities and supporters know more and more about their personal lives.

Having said that, back in the 70s when Stan Bowles's wife left him opposing supporters chanted "Stanley, Stanley, where your wife?" so this is nothing new.

The difference is that some sportsmen have a modicum of self control in the face of abuse from the terraces and deal with it by either a) ignoring it or b) making a joke about it. Two examples spring to mind:

1. The Southbank to Paul Merson: "Merson takes it up the nose" - Merson's response was to turn to the crowd and run his finger under his nose.

2. The Hollies stand at Edgbaston to Shane Warne: "Where's your missus gone?" - Warne turned to the crowd and shrugged his shoulders.

In both examples I don't recall the chant being sung again.

I'm not trying to suggest that either of these are as bad as the song about Sol Campbell but a lot of the footballers these days seem to let terrace abuse get to them far more than perhaps they should.

[Terminal Boardom]

Good post TROLI. I remember a ref at Elm Park getting the "Who's the w*nker in the black?". He looks up at the South Bank and points to himself. Kills the chant stone dead.

[SLAMMED]

The word 'Yiddish' isn't racist, as I'm sure you know. Just like 'Pakistani' isn't.

Yid is to Yiddish, as Paki is to Pakistani.

[prostak]

The word 'Yiddish' isn't racist, as I'm sure you know. Just like 'Pakistani' isn't.

Yid is to Yiddish, as Paki is to Pakistani.

I don't quite grasp your point.

[SLAMMED]

Pakistani isn't racist, but Paki is, just like Yid is racist, but Yiddish isn't.

[prostak]

Pakistani isn't racist, but Paki is, just like Yid is racist, but Yiddish isn't.

OK, I think I presumed some further insinuation. I've no argument with that, however.

[FORSTERS_RIGHT_FOOT]

Pakistani isn't racist, but Paki is, just like Yid is racist, but Yiddish isn't.

I don't get how "Paki" is racist. Its just a short term for Pakistani, as is "Brit" if your British.

[Terminal Boardom]

Pakistani isn't racist, but Paki is, just like Yid is racist, but Yiddish isn't.

Can't agree to this. Derogatory? More than likely. Racist? Hardly. There is a difference.

[SLAMMED]

Pakistani isn't racist, but Paki is, just like Yid is racist, but Yiddish isn't.

I don't get how "Paki" is racist. Its just a short term for Pakistani, as is "Brit" if your British.

What makes me laugh is that if you called one a Paki, they'd probably 'shank' you, yet they graffiti 'paki 4 lyfe' all over the sodding toilets.

[Ian Royal]

Pakistani isn't racist, but Paki is, just like Yid is racist, but Yiddish isn't.

I don't get how "Paki" is racist. Its just a short term for Pakistani, as is "Brit" if your British.

What makes me laugh is that if you called one a Paki, they'd probably 'shank' you, yet they graffiti 'paki 4 lyfe' all over the sodding toilets.

Attempts to reclaim the word from the racists. Didn't really work with "nigger" either.

[Rex]

Using the Nigga word is empowering / derogatory to a black on black person, most notable in the pseudo macho world of gang culture and therefore gangsta rap. As we know for a white person to use this it is deemed totally offensive and racist and is taken from the historical context associated with it.
In reclaiming the word the black culture is trying to reclaim it and possibly neutralise its potence but as with any vocalisation it it down to context and scenario.

[FiNeRaIn]

Yawn, over PC society that we live in. A group of people complain about a word, it grows... then becomes outlawed.

Paki is short for pakstani, how is that offensive? Brit is short for British. Shall we all kick off about this and get this outlawed as well, just to be difficult?

[Rex]

But Finerain it's not down to your perceptions but that of the targetted individual. If you are 100% comfortable with going up to a person and saying that then fine, it's all about individual choice in life. That would be individual accountability. Within the enviromnent of football chanting it's all about attempting to hide within a crowd and deliberate agitation to get a reaction.