"Vile chanting"

[Dirk Gently]

The FA, FL & PL are teaming up to tackle what Ian Watmore (FA Chief Exec.) calls "vile chanting." That'll be a big story for the next year or so.

[Alivey]

i thought it was acceptable.. it's the players fault for inciting them...

[Mr Optimist]

Why don't they just ban anyone from going to PL games who has been watching "footy" for more than 5 years?

[Ian Royal]

The FA, FL & PL are teaming up to tackle what Ian Watmore (FA Chief Exec.) calls "vile chanting." That'll be a big story for the next year or so.

As a representative of our fans is there any chance you could provide some detailed information on what consitutes "vile chanting"?

Anything abusive? Anything involving foul language? Anything potentially libelous?

If it includes foul language, can I propose an alternative and acceptable chant: "Who's the banker in the black!"

That's probably more offensive than the original though.

[Dirk Gently]

The FA, FL & PL are teaming up to tackle what Ian Watmore (FA Chief Exec.) calls "vile chanting." That'll be a big story for the next year or so.

As a representative of our fans is there any chance you could provide some detailed information on what consitutes "vile chanting"?

Anything abusive? Anything involving foul language? Anything potentially libelous?

If it includes foul language, can I propose an alternative and acceptable chant: "Who's the banker in the black!"

That's probably more offensive than the original though.

That's one of the biggest problems - defining what is and isn't acceptable. It's all subjective and virtuall impossible to define.

For instance "yids" - is racist, but is it when it's used by Spurs fans about themselves. Ditto the Arsène Wenger chants at Old Trafford and many other. This one will get lots of discussion before it ever gets resolved (if it can be!).

[Ian Royal]

That's exactly what I think. Throw in that you can't actually tell what fans are chanting half the time and that not everyone sings the same lyrics to the tune and it's prettty unworkable IMO.

[Archie's penalty]

I think we need big microphones hanging from the roofs of stands to see exactly what everyone is saying at all times...

[prostak]

Different things are offensive to different people. Dirk is right to point out the Tottenham issue - I probably know as many Jews who find it hideously anti-Semitic as don't, although I'd say most of the former are not football fans.
My own bugbear is the ease with which 'gippo' is thrown around football grounds, long after any comparable slur became almost unheard-of. Perhaps it is true that this particular word is often (maybe even most often) used to insult non-Romanies, but I really can't see how hundreds of people shouting it at Freddy Eastwood is more acceptable than if they were to shout the n-word at a black player.

[frimmers]

"yiddish"


The language historically of Ashkenazic Jews of Central and Eastern Europe, resulting from a fusion of elements derived principally from medieval German dialects and secondarily from Hebrew and Aramaic, various Slavic languages, and Old French and Old Italian.


how can a language be racist?

[Ian Royal]

"yiddish"


The language historically of Ashkenazic Jews of Central and Eastern Europe, resulting from a fusion of elements derived principally from medieval German dialects and secondarily from Hebrew and Aramaic, various Slavic languages, and Old French and Old Italian.


how can a language be racist?

TBF I've not got much experience with that word, but it doesn't feel racist. It sounds and feels quite friendly IMO. But maybe that's because I've mostly seen it in football context and from the likes of you.
It doesn't feel like you can put the bite and venom into it that you get with "nigger" or "paki". Dunno just feels a little weak somehow. Might ask my Jewish pal what she thinks on the subject.

[prostak]

The word 'Yiddish' isn't racist, as I'm sure you know. Just like 'Pakistani' isn't.

[Archie's penalty]

Yid is racist because in countries like Russia where many Jews came from it was an insult.

Zhyd (our yid) in Russian is a derogatory word for Jew. In Russia the word for Jew is Yevrai (Of Hebrew descent).

In Poland the word for jew is Żyd (pronounced Zhyd - or yid here) - but it's a neutral term there.

Anyway my family is Jewish and yid definitely has a derogatory feel about it.

If you read the books of Isaac Babel and Michael Chabon Jews take on the word Zhyd (Yid) as a positive thing - a bit like blacks have taken on the word 'nigger' or Gays the word 'queer'. For people outside the Jewish ethnic group I think yid is racist. How much that effects the situation at Spurs is anyone's guess - not all Spurs fans are Jews after all...

[frimmers]

n17 is not in russia .

[Archie's penalty]

n17 is not in russia .

I know. But how many of the Jews in North London came from Russia in the first place?

[frimmers]

how many speakers of the english language were born in england?....in all seriousness it is not a problem...i have fond memories of sharing a cab bound for wembley with a huge rastafarian replete with red stripe and spliff intoning "yid army".no harm done in an adult society.the downside?..his ganga was crap.but "whitey" sorted that:)

[Alivey]

I don't think yid is offensive fwiw.

[Ian Royal]

I don't think yid is offensive fwiw.

Unless you're Jewish that doesn't really matter.

[Alivey]

I don't think yid is offensive fwiw.

Unless you're Jewish that doesn't really matter.

So I can't find nigger offensive because I'm not black?

[frimmers]

I don't think yid is offensive fwiw.

Unless you're Jewish that doesn't really matter.

So I can't find nigger offensive because I'm not black?

your choice. of course you can. could you provide any words in the nigger lexicon that upset you?

[Archie's penalty]

Sorry Frimmers don't agree.

I think yid is offensive.