So cheats do prosper.....

[Tails]

Nice sporting behaviour to give the spanish the ball back when they had a corner....

[Baines]

In the context of the match, picking on Spanish transgressions is somewhat like complaining about Mandela's activities in Apartheid South Africa.

[Baines]

Nice sporting behaviour to give the spanish the ball back when they had a corner....

Yep - was amazed at that.

[CMRoyal]

In the context of the match, picking on Spanish transgressions is somewhat like complaining about Mandela's activities in Apartheid South Africa.

True enough.

What's with the sudden expectation of refereeing perfection by the way? Where did that come from? Football's a game of mistakes and how the Dutch can blame Howard Webb for the Spanish goal is beyond me. Did he prevent them closing down midfield? Did he force the poor defensive clearance? Did he block them from picking up Iniesta?

[Sun Tzu]

Fact is, this Spain team is no better than past Spanish teams that have got to the Q-Fs of major tournaments. They lack the pace and height to be a truly great team, but are fortunate to be around during an unprecedentedly mediocre period for the major national teams. They are the best around at the moment, but that's not saying much and they did have to resort to some dirty play themselves last night because they are simply not good enough to overcome an average Dutch team by footballing skill alone.

Rubbish !

LOL at the idea that because they don't have lots of tall players they aren't actually very good !! Just LOL !!!!

I'd guess being European and World Champions means absolutley nothing. To have twice come through in major competitions is not worth even crediting them with being a pretty decent team ! They play good football, on the ground (why would they need a few 6' bruisers ?) and all 10 outfield players can play.

And LOL that they inly beat Holland by playing dirty !!

Just LOL generally really.....

[CMRoyal]

Fact is, this Spain team is no better than past Spanish teams that have got to the Q-Fs of major tournaments. They lack the pace and height to be a truly great team, but are fortunate to be around during an unprecedentedly mediocre period for the major national teams. They are the best around at the moment, but that's not saying much and they did have to resort to some dirty play themselves last night because they are simply not good enough to overcome an average Dutch team by footballing skill alone.

Rubbish !

LOL at the idea that because they don't have lots of tall players they aren't actually very good !! Just LOL !!!!

I'd guess being European and World Champions means absolutley nothing. To have twice come through in major competitions is not worth even crediting them with being a pretty decent team ! They play good football, on the ground (why would they need a few 6' bruisers ?) and all 10 outfield players can play.

And LOL that they inly beat Holland by playing dirty !!

Just LOL generally really.....

You've completely misquoted me. Ah well.

I mentioned lack of height as one limitation - what this means is that they tend to play very narrowly which restricts their options, especially as they don't always have the pace to get behind defences. I also acknowledged that they are the best team around, so being European and World Champions does mean something - it means, erm, they're the best team around. And three, I didn't say they "only" beat Holland by playing dirty - I said they couldn't do it by playing tik-a-tak football alone. They're a good team, but only the best because the rest are so mediocre.

[TFF]

Fact is, this Spain team is no better than past Spanish teams that have got to the Q-Fs of major tournaments. They lack the pace and height to be a truly great team, but are fortunate to be around during an unprecedentedly mediocre period for the major national teams. They are the best around at the moment, but that's not saying much and they did have to resort to some dirty play themselves last night because they are simply not good enough to overcome an average Dutch team by footballing skill alone.

You've completely misquoted me. Ah well.

Sun Tzu's quote button must be faulty. I cut and paste and got this:

Fact is, this Spain team is no better than past Spanish teams that have got to the Q-Fs of major tournaments. They lack the pace and height to be a truly great team, but are fortunate to be around during an unprecedentedly mediocre period for the major national teams. They are the best around at the moment, but that's not saying much and they did have to resort to some dirty play themselves last night because they are simply not good enough to overcome an average Dutch team by footballing skill alone.

Oh.














Still bollocks.

[Sun Tzu]

You've completely misquoted me. Ah well.

No I didn't.

You said lack of height meant they weren't a great team.

You said they couldn;t beat Holland using skill and did so by playing dirty.

'Misquoting' doesn't mean disagreeing with you....

[CMRoyal]

Not that quote - the bits like:-

"because they don't have lots of tall players they aren't actually very good !!".

I never said that.

"I'd guess being European and World Champions means absolutley nothing. "

I never said that.

"And LOL that they inly beat Holland by playing dirty !!"

I never said that either.

I guess it's setting up straw men rather than misquoting.

[CMRoyal]

You've completely misquoted me. Ah well.

No I didn't.

You said lack of height meant they weren't a great team.

You said they couldn;t beat Holland using skill and did so by playing dirty.

'Misquoting' doesn't mean disagreeing with you....

I said that lack of height was a factor. If they were quicker the lack of height would not matter so much.

I said that "playing dirty" (as you put it) was a factor in them winning. I stick by that - and I'm sure they would rightly say they had no choice.

[Sun Tzu]

Not that quote - the bits like:-

"because they don't have lots of tall players they aren't actually very good !!".

I never said that.

"I'd guess being European and World Champions means absolutley nothing. "

I never said that.

"And LOL that they inly beat Holland by playing dirty !!"

I never said that either.

I guess it's setting up straw men rather than misquoting.

I think you have to allow people to chose the words they put in their posts !!!

If you say lack of height means they aren't a great team then me saying that claiming they aren't good because they don't have lots of tall players isn't 'misquoting', it's pointing out the absurdity of the statement.
You didn;t recognise the fact that they have won two major tournaments, which is a pretty significant point when you are trying to claim they aren't that good.

And if 'they did have to resort to some dirty play themselves last night because they are simply not good enough to overcome an average Dutch team by footballing skill alone.' isn't saying 'they only won because they played dirty' then I'm not sure what it is saying !!

[Sun Tzu]

I said that lack of height was a factor. If they were quicker the lack of height would not matter so much.

I'm sure World and European Champions Spain really feel that being slow and short is limiting their standing in the game !!!!!

[papereyes]

I guess it's setting up straw men rather than misquoting.

Hobnob Rules of Engagement, old chap.

[CMRoyal]

If you say lack of height means they aren't a great team

I didn't say that though, did I? I said "they lack the pace and height to be a truly great team". In other words, because they are not particularly pacy (especially when Torres isn't playing) they can't very often get in behind defences on the end of killer passes or to get decent crosses in. And when they do manage to do the latter, a bit of height would mix things up and add a major asset to their game. Not all great teams need height, but if they play very narrowly and don't have any real speed-merchants up front or running from midfield, they do need something extra. I don't think Spain have it, and would have been knocked out in most earlier World Cup competitions. So, it's the lack of pace AND the lack of height that makes them, ahem, fall short of being a truly great team.

[bigmike]

If you say lack of height means they aren't a great team

I didn't say that though, did I? I said "they lack the pace and height to be a truly great team". In other words, because they are not particularly pacy (especially when Torres isn't playing) they can't very often get in behind defences on the end of killer passes or to get decent crosses in. And when they do manage to do the latter, a bit of height would mix things up and add a major asset to their game. Not all great teams need height, but if they play very narrowly and don't have any real speed-merchants up front or running from midfield, they do need something extra. I don't think Spain have it, and would have been knocked out in most earlier World Cup competitions. So, it's the lack of pace AND the lack of height that makes them, ahem, fall short of being a truly great team.

A great team would have won at least one of their games in this tournament by more than 1 goal that was scored in the latter stages of the game.

Spain are not a great team they have done what Italy have done for so many years being dificult to play against and scoring one goal.


What really annoyed me about the Spanish is that everytime one of them went down they were surrounding the ref and signaling to the ref that the player should be booked. Any player who does the brandishing a card signal to the ref IMO should be booked

[Ian Royal]

Leaving aside the despicable Dutch fouling........

Example 1 - Robben runs through on goal, Puyol attempts a rugby tackle and (for once in his life) Robben stays on his feet but loses the ball. Had he gone down Puyol would have been off for a 2nd yellow and Spain would have been playing a considerable time with 10 men

Example 2 - Iniesta runs through and goes down after the slightest pull back from Dutch defender, who goes for a 2nd yellow


For some reason this is the thing that is sticking with me this game, and its really annoying me.
We moan about people going down too easy, yet it is clear that you bloody well have to or you don't get the decision

Been saying for a while now that cheating is encouraged because you get shit all if you don't go down. Likewise violent conduct is only ever properly punished if the player feigns injury. Be a man about getting an elbow for hand in the face and generally it's a yellow at most.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

If you say lack of height means they aren't a great team

I didn't say that though, did I? I said "they lack the pace and height to be a truly great team". In other words, because they are not particularly pacy (especially when Torres isn't playing) they can't very often get in behind defences on the end of killer passes or to get decent crosses in. .

You don't think the fact that they play a style of play which isn't English, and doesn't rely on running past fullbacks for a big bloke to nod in at the far post, might have something to do with that?

But yeah, that close-control, pass and move into space style they have really limits them.

[CMRoyal]

If you say lack of height means they aren't a great team

I didn't say that though, did I? I said "they lack the pace and height to be a truly great team". In other words, because they are not particularly pacy (especially when Torres isn't playing) they can't very often get in behind defences on the end of killer passes or to get decent crosses in. .

You don't think the fact that they play a style of play which isn't English, and doesn't rely on running past fullbacks for a big bloke to nod in at the far post, might have something to do with that?

But yeah, that close-control, pass and move into space style they have really limits them.

Yeah, that's what I meant. It's absolutely the case that if you question the claims for Spain being a fantastic team then you must be by default advocating the English kick-and-hoof style.

The Spanish style is of course very easy on the eye and effective enough to make them the best team in the world, but in my opinion if they had more pace they'd be a lot more devastating. You surely have noticed that when Torres is playing they do have a lot more width and hence there's more variety to their game - this is not hoof and nod I'm talking about. Torres's absence probably goes some way to explaining how they seemed to be more dominant two years ago. I'm not denying they are a good team, I'm just questioning the rioja-tinted media reaction to them.

[Nick Shorey my Lord!]

A great team would have won at least one of their games in this tournament by more than 1 goal that was scored in the latter stages of the game.

This is grade A rubbish. It doesn't matter how many goals you win by, because you don't win by the volume of goals, you just need to score one more than your opponent; dem de rulez.

[sandman]

A great team would have won at least one of their games in this tournament by more than 1 goal that was scored in the latter stages of the game.

This is grade A rubbish. It doesn't matter how many goals you win by, because you don't win by the volume of goals, you just need to score one more than your opponent; dem de rulez.

The whole post is rubbish tbh. Spain weren't allowed to play throughout the tournament because of the reputation they gained from their attacking play in the Euros. All the teams barring Chile that they played against deployed defensive tactics in order to stifle them.

This is a team of European Champions at both club and international level. They have great individuals who have been brought together as a team with skill, togetherness and despite the differences of the two main clubs in their country with which the majority of them play in. Spain are worthy World Champions and one of the best national teams that Europe has ever produced.