So cheats do prosper.....

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Leaving aside the despicable Dutch fouling........

Example 1 - Robben runs through on goal, Puyol attempts a rugby tackle and (for once in his life) Robben stays on his feet but loses the ball. Had he gone down Puyol would have been off for a 2nd yellow and Spain would have been playing a considerable time with 10 men

Example 2 - Iniesta runs through and goes down after the slightest pull back from Dutch defender, who goes for a 2nd yellow


For some reason this is the thing that is sticking with me this game, and its really annoying me.
We moan about people going down too easy, yet it is clear that you bloody well have to or you don't get the decision

[RoyalChicagoFC]

Well yeah...but before the first half-hour was gone, De Jong gave Webb a choice between:

--Applying the letter and indeed the spirit of the law by sending him str7 off; and

--Being more lenient than the military when similar acts are committed upon fellow soldiers as part of "bonding and initi7ion" rituals


That match was refereed to an English standard --a good thing-- and even at that people are carping

I would ask that one spare a moment to imagine the wretched-beyond-comparison alternative and count blessings

And then blame the Dutch for everything ;)

[leon]

Leaving aside the despicable Dutch fouling........

Example 1 - Robben runs through on goal, Puyol attempts a rugby tackle and (for once in his life) Robben stays on his feet but loses the ball. Had he gone down Puyol would have been off for a 2nd yellow and Spain would have been playing a considerable time with 10 men

Example 2 - Iniesta runs through and goes down after the slightest pull back from Dutch defender, who goes for a 2nd yellow


For some reason this is the thing that is sticking with me this game, and its really annoying me.
We moan about people going down too easy, yet it is clear that you bloody well have to or you don't get the decision

Two words - Van Bommel. End of thread.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Leaving aside the despicable Dutch fouling........

Example 1 - Robben runs through on goal, Puyol attempts a rugby tackle and (for once in his life) Robben stays on his feet but loses the ball. Had he gone down Puyol would have been off for a 2nd yellow and Spain would have been playing a considerable time with 10 men

Example 2 - Iniesta runs through and goes down after the slightest pull back from Dutch defender, who goes for a 2nd yellow


For some reason this is the thing that is sticking with me this game, and its really annoying me.
We moan about people going down too easy, yet it is clear that you bloody well have to or you don't get the decision

Two words - Van Bommel. End of thread.

Did you not read the first line you tw*tter?
There's another thread to moan about the Dutch.

This was supposed to be a wider discussion about honesty etc. in general football

[paultheroyal]

Leaving aside the despicable Dutch fouling........

Example 1 - Robben runs through on goal, Puyol attempts a rugby tackle and (for once in his life) Robben stays on his feet but loses the ball. Had he gone down Puyol would have been off for a 2nd yellow and Spain would have been playing a considerable time with 10 men

Example 2 - Iniesta runs through and goes down after the slightest pull back from Dutch defender, who goes for a 2nd yellow


For some reason this is the thing that is sticking with me this game, and its really annoying me.
We moan about people going down too easy, yet it is clear that you bloody well have to or you don't get the decision

You could say all this about any game of football. Pretty pointless debate really.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Leaving aside the despicable Dutch fouling........

Example 1 - Robben runs through on goal, Puyol attempts a rugby tackle and (for once in his life) Robben stays on his feet but loses the ball. Had he gone down Puyol would have been off for a 2nd yellow and Spain would have been playing a considerable time with 10 men

Example 2 - Iniesta runs through and goes down after the slightest pull back from Dutch defender, who goes for a 2nd yellow


For some reason this is the thing that is sticking with me this game, and its really annoying me.
We moan about people going down too easy, yet it is clear that you bloody well have to or you don't get the decision

You could say all this about any game of football. Pretty pointless debate really.

That was the point. Its a wider debate, just using a really obvious example that stuck out tonight

[paultheroyal]

Happened in 86, happened in 90, deffo in 94 and even in the quarter final match at this world cup.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Yep,

I would have been a big talking point tonight, in fact should have, but obviously it was lost in the appaling Dutch fouling.
Shame the BBC were too busy slagging the Dutch and over-hyping the Spanish afterwards to comment. Thought the summarising was really poor tonight. They let themselves get too passionate

[leon]

Two words - Van Bommel. End of thread.

Did you not read the first line you tw*tter?
There's another thread to moan about the Dutch.

This was supposed to be a wider discussion about honesty etc. in general football

It's an interesting premise...start a thread slagging off the Spanish "cheating" whilst ruling out as inadmissible the quite disgraceful behaviour of the Dutch - hence my point.

Oh and it's "prosper" by the way.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Two words - Van Bommel. End of thread.

Did you not read the first line you tw*tter?
There's another thread to moan about the Dutch.

This was supposed to be a wider discussion about honesty etc. in general football

It's an interesting premise...start a thread slagging off the Spanish "cheating" whilst ruling out as inadmissible the quite disgraceful behaviour of the Dutch - hence my point.

I wasn't slagging off the Spanish cheating

I was pointing out two identical fouls, but the responses of players meaning different outcomes.
The point was supposed to be independent of the thoroughly awful Dutch tactics, just a general point about why we shouldn't be surprised that players are rarely honest

Oh and it's "prosper" by the way.

Has Spacey stolen your log-in?

[TFF]

LOL at Robben being honest.

He's gone down under far less pressure every match he's played this tournament (and possibly ever). He was trying to make it to the box and get a penalty. He even left his foot in when Casillas saved.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

LOL at Robben being honest.

He's gone down under far less pressure every match he's played this tournament (and possibly ever). He was trying to make it to the box and get a penalty. He even left his foot in when Casillas saved.

Yeah it is a LOL.

One time in his life he stays on his feet!

[Archie's penalty]

I thought Iniesta was hardly touched too. I wonder if it would have made a difference at the end of the day...

[Flyingkiwi]

The bit that gets me is that they go crashing down like a sack of spuds then bounce up waving imaginary cards in an attempt to influence the ref. That's below the belt.

As regards this particular game; I think the Spanish did get a slightly easier ride from Howard Webb than did the Dutch but that probably has more to do with how they have conducted themselves throughout the tournament. I just wish referees had longer memories because, in the next Italian game (whenever that is) there'll be diving and the refs will fall for it...AGAIN!!!

[Sun Tzu]

Given the fact that it was the Dutch committing the really cynical fouls I can;t see how the Spanish 'got it easy' !!

Regarding the two incidents quoted, Robben would have been daft to go down under the Puyol challenge as he was one on one with the keeper and had every chance of scoring. If he had gone down it would have been a free kick outside the area. His reaction was daft - you can;t be given a massive advantage then complain because you messed up...

The red card is really hard to judge, there was a tug back, and for a player running at pace it doesn;t take much to knock him over. I'd say Webb probably got it right, it was a foul but the Spaniard took full advantage of the challenge.

Overall I thought Webb had a decent game in very difficult circumstances. Holland were a disgrace and had they won it would have seriously tarnished the tournament. I suspect there are no punishments that can be applied to a team behaving so cynically in such a preconceived plan but there should be....

[Nick Shorey my Lord!]

Example 1 - Robben runs through on goal, Puyol attempts a rugby tackle and (for once in his life) Robben stays on his feet but loses the ball. Had he gone down Puyol would have been off for a 2nd yellow and Spain would have been playing a considerable time with 10 men

...and why didn't he go down? Because he wasn't in the penalty area. Also, Puyol didn't actually hinder his progress to goal did he? He was clear on through and cocked up so actually he only had himself to blame, as he did with the other one on one.

[Silver Fox]

^that, Puyol barely touched him anyway, big LOLz @ robben for most of the game to be honest

[Skyline]

Example 1 - Robben runs through on goal, Puyol attempts a rugby tackle and (for once in his life) Robben stays on his feet but loses the ball. Had he gone down Puyol would have been off for a 2nd yellow and Spain would have been playing a considerable time with 10 men

...and why didn't he go down? Because he wasn't in the penalty area. Also, Puyol didn't actually hinder his progress to goal did he? He was clear on through and cocked up so actually he only had himself to blame, as he did with the other one on one.

Spot on.

[CMRoyal]

Yep,

I would have been a big talking point tonight, in fact should have, but obviously it was lost in the appaling Dutch fouling.
Shame the BBC were too busy slagging the Dutch and over-hyping the Spanish afterwards to comment. Thought the summarising was really poor tonight. They let themselves get too passionate

Agreed. I can't believe the pro-Spain love-in. They can dish it out too, not that I blame them the way Holland went about it, and Iniesta arguably shouldn't even have been on the pitch to score after his blatant off-the-ball retaliation. But we hear nothing about this from the pundits or media. Fact is, this Spain team is no better than past Spanish teams that have got to the Q-Fs of major tournaments. They lack the pace and height to be a truly great team, but are fortunate to be around during an unprecedentedly mediocre period for the major national teams. They are the best around at the moment, but that's not saying much and they did have to resort to some dirty play themselves last night because they are simply not good enough to overcome an average Dutch team by footballing skill alone.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Example 1 - Robben runs through on goal, Puyol attempts a rugby tackle and (for once in his life) Robben stays on his feet but loses the ball. Had he gone down Puyol would have been off for a 2nd yellow and Spain would have been playing a considerable time with 10 men

...and why didn't he go down? Because he wasn't in the penalty area. Also, Puyol didn't actually hinder his progress to goal did he? He was clear on through and cocked up so actually he only had himself to blame, as he did with the other one on one.

Nor was Iniesta and he went down.....with far less contact that Puyol had on Robben.