Englands top 20 clubs

[readingbedding]

What did Arsenal do pre-Chapman?

Actually is this from a certain date or from inception of Club?

[boy1985]

LOl @ putting european cup and cup winners cup under the same heading! Surely inter two bob cup counts as european winners too then?

Winning the inter-toto cup is just a route into the UEFA Cup
Winning the Cup Winners Cup was just like winning the UEFA Cup

1 European cup win in 1982 DOESN'T make Aston Villa a bigger club than Arsenal. Infact the last time Villa won something was 1996 (13 years ago) and that was the league cup, since then Arsenal have won 3 top division titles and 4 FA Cups/

So you're either on the wind up or its LOL @ You

Villa have won the European cup meaning that at some point they would have been regarded as the best team around, Arsenal can not say that. If you're going on who's been the most successful overall then yeah you'd have to say Arsenal especially in recent years. What makes a big club anyway? I don't agree when people say Newcastle are a big club just because they have x amount of fans, If a million fans suddenly started to support MK Dons would that make them a big club? To be honest there is only 2 'big' clubs in England anyway IMO

[papereyes]

To be honest there is only 2 'big' clubs in England anyway IMO

You could possibly make an argument for 3, but yeah, that's about it.

Then there's some currently successful clubs and then some clubs that were successful once and then a whole host of clubs that have never been successful.

[boy1985]

To be honest there is only 2 'big' clubs in England anyway IMO

You could possibly make an argument for 3, but yeah, that's about it.

Then there's some currently successful clubs and then some clubs that were successful once and then a whole host of clubs that have never been successful.

Yeah exactly quite a few teams have had eras where they have been successful but then fallen away. Who would you say is the 3rd? I can only think of 2 that can compete with the records of Barcelona, Madrid and Milan.

[papereyes]

I think you could make a good argument for Arsenal on the basis of historical success in the league and in the FA cup (second most wins, iirc).

I also think you could make an argument for Chelsea, solely on recent successes, profile and cash. It's not as good an argument, but its there. If anything, they're who I'm thinking of as 'currently successful' - before Abramovich, they were little more than a London-based Villa.

However, I think they're both playing for 3rd place behind Manchester United and Liverpool.

[boy1985]

I think you could make a good argument for Arsenal on the basis of historical success in the league and in the FA cup (second most wins, iirc).

I also think you could make an argument for Chelsea, solely on recent successes, profile and cash. It's not as good an argument, but its there. If anything, they're who I'm thinking of as 'currently successful' - before Abramovich, they were little more than a London-based Villa.

However, I think they're both playing for 3rd place behind Manchester United and Liverpool.

It would be good if somebody had worked out a table on a points system, 10 points for league, 5 for FA cup, 15 for champions league etc.

[papereyes]

Spacey. Has.

[boy1985]

Spacey. Has.

The one on this thread? It meant one where you could see points totals etc

[SpaceCruiser]

Spacey. Has.

Indeed, I've found the old thread...

http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopi ... &p=1838787

[papereyes]

Well, you might remember I did a database that calculated the rankings of the most successful clubs in England (and Wales). This is the top 20 from it. Reading is not in it, unfortunately.

1 Liverpool
2 Manchester United
3 Arsenal
4 Aston Villa
5 Everton
6 Tottenham Hotspur
7 Newcastle United
8 Sunderland
9 Manchester City
10 Blackburn Rovers
11 Chelsea
12 Sheffield Wednesday
13 West Bromwich Albion
14 Nottingham Forest
15 Wolverhampton Wanderers
16 Derby County
17 Bolton Wanderers
18 Sheffield United
19 Preston North End
20 Burnley

Thread here --> http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopi ... in+England

[boy1985]

Well, you might remember I did a database that calculated the rankings of the most successful clubs in England (and Wales). This is the top 20 from it. Reading is not in it, unfortunately.

1 Liverpool
2 Manchester United
3 Arsenal
4 Aston Villa
5 Everton
6 Tottenham Hotspur
7 Newcastle United
8 Sunderland
9 Manchester City
10 Blackburn Rovers
11 Chelsea
12 Sheffield Wednesday
13 West Bromwich Albion
14 Nottingham Forest
15 Wolverhampton Wanderers
16 Derby County
17 Bolton Wanderers
18 Sheffield United
19 Preston North End
20 Burnley

Thread here --> http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopi ... in+England

Didn't realise there would be that big of a gap between Arsenal and 4th. Shows how much i know

[papereyes]

Just in my lifetime (late 80s onwards) Arsenal have always been there or thereabouts.

Whether it be the George Graham side of 1988-90, the European and cup runs of the early-to-mid 90s, the league title in 98, another cup side at the turn of the millenium (UEFA cup final? FA cup finals, iirc), then the second Arsenal league winning side.

[boy1985]

Just in my lifetime (late 80s onwards) Arsenal have always been there or thereabouts.

Whether it be the George Graham side of 1988-90, the European and cup runs of the early-to-mid 90s, the league title in 98, another cup side at the turn of the millenium (UEFA cup final? FA cup finals, iirc), then the second Arsenal league winning side.

Doesn't make good reading for us though, back to champions leagues and we'd still be behind Huddersfield.

[SpaceCruiser]

On the bright side, if we should win the Championship title this season, we'll be on 20.5 points and leap up to 37th place!

Mind you, not sure about the other table on the 3rd page.

[TBM]

Villa have won the European cup meaning that at some point they would have been regarded as the best team around, Arsenal can not say that.

Im sorry but what the fcuk are you chatting about?

Going by your statement surely Nottingham Forest should be above Aston Villa, Arsenal AND Chelsea simply because they have won the European Cup twice......

[who are ya?]

What about West Ham?

They have a large fanbase.

And don't forget, they also won the World Cup in 1966...

As for Newcastle, I think it's generous even putting them in the top 10. Going just on they're over rated fans is mad. I'm pretty sure in the not too distant past, they got nowhere near the 50,000 gates they do now, they've also won fvck all.

[boy1985]

Villa have won the European cup meaning that at some point they would have been regarded as the best team around, Arsenal can not say that.

Im sorry but what the fcuk are you chatting about?

Going by your statement surely Nottingham Forest should be above Aston Villa, Arsenal AND Chelsea simply because they have won the European Cup twice......

Like I said earlier I underestimated how much your beloved gooners had won

[SpaceCruiser]

Villa have won the European cup meaning that at some point they would have been regarded as the best team around, Arsenal can not say that.

Im sorry but what the fcuk are you chatting about?

Going by your statement surely Nottingham Forest should be above Aston Villa, Arsenal AND Chelsea simply because they have won the European Cup twice......

Well, Villa and Forest have been champions of Europe whereas Arsenal have NEVER ( ) been champions of Europe. Surely, being champions of Europe is the highest (with exception of the World Club Cup) that a club could aspire to?

[TBM]

Villa have won the European cup meaning that at some point they would have been regarded as the best team around, Arsenal can not say that.

Im sorry but what the fcuk are you chatting about?

Going by your statement surely Nottingham Forest should be above Aston Villa, Arsenal AND Chelsea simply because they have won the European Cup twice......

Well, Villa and Forest have been champions of Europe whereas Arsenal have NEVER ( ) been champions of Europe. Surely, being champions of Europe is the highest (with exception of the World Club Cup) that a club could aspire to?

I agree Spacey but as your calculations showed that last time we did this, other competitions do count.....

[The 17 Bus]

Can I add that there are many clubs that I would consider smaller than RFC, that have won the FA Cup at some point, FFS even Cardiff managed it, but at this point and historically I dont see them as a bigger club, filling their new stadium and gaining promotion would probably take them above us tho.