Questioning Ref's

[ZacNaloen]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 412330.stm

With Ferguson looking like he may get that suspended sentence activated, it brings to my mind the question If a manager such as ferguson is unhappy with a referee, what is the process he is supposed to use to get those worries looked at?

[cmonurz]

A letter/email/phone call to the referees' association/Premier League/FA? Under the current setup at least.

I'd like to see referees released from their 'ban' on explaining decisions to the press after the game, should they wish to.

I'd also like to see an end to the practice of not reviewing disciplinary issues where the referee is deemed to have 'dealt with' the issue. This implies that referees are above mistakes, and leads to situations like Rooney, where the referee has clearly not seen the elbow, but has 'dealt with the issue' because he saw a foul of some sort and awarded a free-kick.

No incident should be above review, and referees should be allowed and encourage to explain contentious decisions after the game. Equally, imho, managers should then be able to question the judgement of officials publicly. I don't see that this would in any way affect the independent referees' marking process, and I actually think we'd see fewer 'rants' like Ferguson's, managers keen to be on telly every week bemoaning the officials.

[Hoop Blah]

As much as I'd rather we just finish that game at the final whistle and don't go back to review all the refs decisions I know that's unrealistic these days so I'd be pleased to see refs come out and give their reasoning behind a few contentious decisions. The biggest problem with this is that they will sometimes have to admit they were wrong which may well make it harder for them to make and justify decisions in tsubsequent games.

What I'd like to see more of is managers pulled to task for their opinions and rants when they're clearly wrong. Shame and embarass the likes of Fergie and 'Arry when he says his players a right when they're clearly wrong. Don't let them off the hook everytime they slag off a correct decision or like Wenger 'don't see the incident'.

It's far too easy for them to deflect away from their players mistakes, and their own, by picking on refs and the contentious decisions they make.

I've said for years that all players and managers should be made to pass their refs course as youngsters and do a season or two of reffing kids/park games as they break through in the game. That might have a number of affects, a) they'll finally learn the rules, b) they'll have some empathy with the refs job and c) it might get a few of the players/failed players into ref'ing in the future.

[cmonurz]

Regarding managers - I'd like to see Ferguson forced to accept interviews on the BBC. It's disrespectful that he considers a long-held grudge to be more important than his duties as a team manager, I can only guess the Premier League doesn't enforce interviews for highlights programmes like (what I understand) to be 'contractual' pre-match press conferences etc.

[Skyline]

'Greed HB, especially the last paragraph. Would also extend it to football commentators and pundits. It's been said before (on here and elsewhere) that the lack of knowledge of the Laws amongst those who commentate on the game is shocking, especially when compared to those who commentate on other sports, like cricket.

[floyd__streete]

'Sir' Alex Ferguson is a f*cking disgrace. Knighthood for services to football? Pathetic. More like services to Alex Ferguson and Man Yoo. His antics over the years have brought the game into disrepute time and time again and these latest outbursts are basically the work of a bully.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

It's all just part of a game the managers play. The more they complain, the more they know refs will think twice about awarding controversial decisions against them.

[cmonurz]

It would be good to get into a referee's head sometimes, mind.

When Luiz took out Rooney with a cynical trip, already booked, what did the ref think?

'Shit, I don't want to send off the home team's best centre-back in a game of this importance'
'Foul, but not worthy of a yellow card.'
'What just happened, I was daydreaming, erm, a foul I think, better blow my whistle'

[Terminal Boardom]

I am getting exceedingly pissed off with the constant whinging and moaning of football managers about the match officials. In the space of 4 days, the red nosed one was able to show just how childish and inconsistent they are. The so called "Respect" initiative is a farce and it is about time that the football authorities gre a pair and actually did something about it.

I would like to see the following:

1. a 15-30 minute cooling off period after the game ends before anyone is interviewed by the media
2. match officials given the opportunity to discuss their performance in a sensible manner and without sensationalising anything
3. any manager or player questioning the integrity or honesty or ability of a match official receives a 3 month touchline ban. A repeat performance within 12 months is met with another 3 month touchline ban and a 5 point deduction. Any other recuurance thereafter results in a 6 month touchline ban and 12 point reduction

[cmonurz]

3. any manager or player questioning the integrity or honesty or ability of a match official receives a 3 month touchline ban. A repeat performance within 12 months is met with another 3 month touchline ban and a 5 point deduction. Any other recuurance thereafter results in a 6 month touchline ban and 12 point reduction

Surely half of the problem is managers not feeling referees are held to account for poor decisions. I don't see how the above will help.

[Ian Royal]

3. any manager or player questioning the integrity or honesty or ability of a match official receives a 3 month touchline ban. A repeat performance within 12 months is met with another 3 month touchline ban and a 5 point deduction. Any other recuurance thereafter results in a 6 month touchline ban and 12 point reduction

Surely half of the problem is managers not feeling referees are held to account for poor decisions. I don't see how the above will help.

No the problem is them expecting referees to get absolutely everything right and having an extremely biased view whilst being unable to accept responsibility for their own failures.

There should be nothing wrong with saying that you think the ref got it wrong, if you've looked at it properly and can show it conclusively. But the constant one-eyed whinging and bullying from the likes of Ferguson is pathetic and should be heavily punished.

Refs should be able to explain their decisions, but the media are only interested in sensationalism and antagonism so it isn't going to happen. Officials should also be held accountable when they make sub-standard decisions, but not victimised for an honest mistake in a difficult situation.

[sandman]

Regarding managers - I'd like to see Ferguson forced to accept interviews on the BBC. It's disrespectful that he considers a long-held grudge to be more important than his duties as a team manager, I can only guess the Premier League doesn't enforce interviews for highlights programmes like (what I understand) to be 'contractual' pre-match press conferences etc.

I heard that United are fined for every week he doesn't appear on MOTD. I doubt it's true but if it is that's a lot of money.

[3 veesinarow]

'Sir' Alex Ferguson is a f*cking disgrace. Knighthood for services to football? Pathetic. More like services to Alex Ferguson and Man Yoo. His antics over the years have brought the game into disrepute time and time again and these latest outbursts are basically the work of a bully.

'salright for Rooney to assault a Wigan player - his manager says he sees nothing wrong when he is played the tape, but not for an opposing player (admittedly cynically, but not with the criminal intent that Rooney had) to take out Rooney in the next game?

The man is the worst kind of double-standard setter that it is possible to suffer in this "beautiful" game.

He needs to drink more of that red wine - he's beginning to look like Cloughy in his last days with that complexion - do us a favour and retire "exhausted", Ferguson.

[Royalee]

Sod the referees, they don't command respect - maybe they might have a case if they weren't so useless at their jobs. If I was as shit at my job as Mike Dean is at his, I'd get sued for fraud. The main problem lies with the people who run the game, but unfortunately they've been in power for so long that it's trickled down and now I can't even name one decent referee. Officials should be taught to use common sense, should be wary of the limelight and choose to leave that to the players and do their jobs, but nowadays the likes of Graham Poll and Winter are ACTUALLY BEING PAID to give their opinions. Give it a rest guys, when have you ever played the game? Poll will go down in history as the man who couldn't count at the World Cup, waste of space tosser.

[handbags_harris]

Sod the referees, they don't command respect - maybe they might have a case if they weren't so useless at their jobs. If I was as shit at my job as Mike Dean is at his, I'd get sued for fraud. The main problem lies with the people who run the game, but unfortunately they've been in power for so long that it's trickled down and now I can't even name one decent referee. Officials should be taught to use common sense, should be wary of the limelight and choose to leave that to the players and do their jobs, but nowadays the likes of Graham Poll and Winter are ACTUALLY BEING PAID to give their opinions. Give it a rest guys, when have you ever played the game? Poll will go down in history as the man who couldn't count at the World Cup, waste of space tosser.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but it's an incredibly one-sided argument. To be fair to officials they aren't helped by players who rarely show any intent to take responsibility for their own actions, either retrospectively or in the heat of the moment. Rather than just let an official get on with their job, football has evolved into a game where intimidation of referees has become the norm at all levels, much much more so than most sports. With every decision made in a key area of the pitch you see players crowding around a referee, having a go, arguing the toss with the referee/linesman and their opposite numbers. All of this can only serve to instill an element of doubt into a referee's mind, and in a lot of cases an element of fear of giving something against a particular team/player. Players try absolutely everything they can inside and outside of the laws of the game to win a match but if a referee doesn't make a decision that maybe should have gone for a particular team, the referee gets it in the neck, with players forgetting the six yard sitter they missed to make the score 2-0. If players were to take the responsibility for their actions instead of cheating, thereby forcing the referee to make a decision, and then blaming him if he gets it wrong, the referee's job is easier, less controversial. He is thereby in a position where he doesn't need to make many controversial decisions. Of course, this is all conjecture and isn't going to happen at all unfortunately.

[paultheroyal]

What on earth do you want the referee's to explain?

It is obvious he never gave a penalty because he judged that there was no contact.

It is obvious that he did not book so and so because it was not in the referee's eyes a yellow card offence.

It is obvious that he did not give a ball for a goal line incident because he was not in a position to see it or judged it had not crossed the line.

Decisions and justifications are made on the pitch since 1891, let it stay that way.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

What on earth do you want the referee's to explain?

It is obvious he never gave a penalty because he judged that there was no contact.

It is obvious that he did not book so and so because it was not in the referee's eyes a yellow card offence.

It is obvious that he did not give a ball for a goal line incident because he was not in a position to see it or judged it had not crossed the line.

Decisions and justifications are made on the pitch since 1891, let it stay that way.

Disagree - if only so it will stop eejits like Andy Townsend, Steve Claridge et al wrongly questioning refereeing decisions as part of their "punditry".

[Hoop Blah]

It doesn't help refs when they fail to admit their mistakes too. Didn't Clattenburg reviewed the video of the Rooney elbow last week and say he was happy with the way he'd handled the incident at the time?

There may be a pressure on them to not change their on-pitch decisions but he would've got a lot more credit, and justice would've been done, if he'd said that from his position and view on the pitch he'd not seen the intent and extent of the collision and would now give Rooney the red it deserved. Pretty sure that was possible from the bits I've heard and read since, but instead he said his original treatment of the incident was fine.

Paul, if a few refs came out and gave an insight into how they'd made decisions, and clear up the rules at the same time, then it might help diffuse the situation. They'd have to be honest though and occasionally admit they'd got it wrong in the heat of the moment. I suspect that's why they don't or aren't allowed.

[paultheroyal]

Spot on Hoop Blah. Clattenburg quote and scenario is a great example of what I am getting at. He is happy with how he dealt with it because in the heat of the match he believed he and his team got it right. Start admitting you get lots of decisions wrong each game would mean that you would go through refs like I don't know what as they all be under suspension.

[PieEater]

The problem is that refs decisions or lack of them now directly change results because the standards of play are so high. The best way for a player to get an advantage over another team is to cheat. IMHO there's no way Chelsea should of had a penalty, yet that decision hands Chelsea 2pts.

I think most of the blame lies with the players and their standard of cheating, until that changes it will be pretty well impossible for refs to make genuine calls without points for artistic impression. There's no way someone who's 6'6" gets toppled over by a slight nudge in the back, but if they don't the defenders get away with the push.

Having said that some refs seem to have decided it's a non contact sport, particularly at International and Champions league level, which just makes the games tedious to watch.