Royalty Points Review

[STAR Liaison]

STAR is doing a bit of a consultation exercise on Royalty Points. The club know we’re doing it but otherwise have no input into the various suggestions below. These arise from the STAR Board itself, STAR members and other fans.
The Royalty Points scheme has operated since 2004 (I think) and is generally regarded as a success compared with the queuing and free-for-alls that went before. But after 10 years it’s wise to ask – can it be improved? Has it aged well?

Just to re-cap on the scheme as it is:
- Current season ticket holders take priority on non-holders no matter how many points each have
- You get points for attending matches – 10 for home, 5 for away, various for cup ties and a whole bunch (c255??) for a season ticket
- The more points you have the higher up the priority hierarchy you are to get tickets when they are in short supply

We’ve looked at the issue of ‘expiring’ Royalty Points after a given period of time e.g. 10 years. This would benefit younger / currently loyal supporters. There are mixed views on this and we believe it is not technically possible just to wipe out, for example, points accumulated in 2004-5. But it’s an issue to re-consider in 5 years’ time.

Here are some ideas (from our consultation, not from the club, and we don’t know if they are feasible, nor do we support all of them) that we’d appreciate comments on:

# Idea 1 – equalise the number of points gained for attending home and away matches – 10 points for each – applies only to away tickets bought from RFC Ticket Office

# Idea 2 – add 2 points for every time your season ticket is actually used to go to a home league match

# Idea 3 – allow an adult with enough points to buy 2 tickets at the same time, with the other for a ‘linked’ junior member who does not have enough points

# Idea 4 – allow a transfer / donation of some Royalty Points to a member with a lower number of points, so long as the transferor still has more points than the person who gains. This could happen once only per season and during the close season only. (For example Bart has 1800 points and Lisa has 1250 – Bart transfers 260 points so he has 1540 and Lisa has 1510 and now they are likely to be in the same bracket to buy tickets at the same time.)

# Idea 5 – a bigger points incentive to attend Cup matches (say 20) combined with low priced match ticket

[Hendo]

I like the idea of all of those points to be honest, would improve it IMO.

I would like to add an idea, which may or may not be looked at favourably.

More points to be awarded for further away games. More points for going to Middlesbrough than going to Brentford, for example and not a measly 1 or 2 points difference, like 5 or 10, something like that.

[RG30]

Scrapping the 10 Royalty points for joining STAR would be a good start.

[Z175]

I would be very much against royalty point expiration as a concept.

People have periods in their life where football isn't a priority (university/familiy/illnesss/exile etc) and we want to attract these people back when they can, not punish them for their absence. As younger fans keep attending matches and buying STs, then they will gradually overtake those that have drifted away in any case - its not like it is hard to get tickets for games at the moment. In a hypothetical future scenario where the system is alienating a future fan base then it should be considered but not before.

That said I think there is a case for rewarding regular away fans more.

Its a bit silly that those with a ST for ten years but rarely go away take priority when tickets are sparse. If you dramatically increased away points you would favour the more recent fans and reward the loyalty of the more committed fans. I would suggest keeping 10 for a home game but awarding 20 for an away game, 30 for one ooop north and say 40 for a Tuesday night in Barnsley! At the very least they could do random away bonus promotions... Perhaps we should have "blue members" (so to speak!) and "white members". Blue members get initial priority regardless of royalty points but have to attend say 33+ games a season to qualify (i.e. 10 cup/away) and then say 28 (i.e. 5 cup/away) to retain status. (and yes actually go, not just buy a ST and be included in the attendance!)

Also I often pay on the day away as its a bit spur of the moment for me, especially as its only 5 points. So how about a system of claiming points by showing your away ticket stub?

I think the "transfer" is an interesting concept but sounds a bit unfair - I'm in a higher category than my mate and its annoying to have to wait. However if by donating my points to him he gets a ticket ahead of someone who was ahead of him but now misses out - it barely seems fair, especially for a game I don't go to myself! I think a better idea would be to be able to use combined totals in the priority order - e.g. first category is 2500 + points (1 ticket) or 4,750+ for 2 tickets etc. Perhaps an easier system would be a sort of reservation system where the person in the higher band could "reserve" a second ticket in the lower band when booking which goes through when/if that band goes on sale.

[P!ssed Off]

# Idea 1 – equalise the number of points gained for attending home and away matches – 10 points for each – applies only to away tickets bought from RFC Ticket Office

# Idea 2 – add 2 points for every time your season ticket is actually used to go to a home league match

# Idea 3 – allow an adult with enough points to buy 2 tickets at the same time, with the other for a ‘linked’ junior member who does not have enough points

# Idea 4 – allow a transfer / donation of some Royalty Points to a member with a lower number of points, so long as the transferor still has more points than the person who gains. This could happen once only per season and during the close season only. (For example Bart has 1800 points and Lisa has 1250 – Bart transfers 260 points so he has 1540 and Lisa has 1510 and now they are likely to be in the same bracket to buy tickets at the same time.)

# Idea 5 – a bigger points incentive to attend Cup matches (say 20) combined with low priced match ticket

Terrible idea. Parents should not be given any encouragement to take their small children to away matches.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Categorise away games, give more points for the shitter games - eg 10 points for a normal away game, 20 for Rotherham away, -10 for Brentford away.

Have a roulette wheel at the ticket office where you can gamble your points.

[PieEater]

I don't like any of the ideas, however I'd add the concept of Royalty point inflation. Every few years add a couple more points to game attendance. That way old points are still worth something but a keen recent supporter can catch up.

The points really only come into effect for me in big away games with small allocations, and the problem I have is that I want to go with a non season ticket holder. That means even though I'm in the top band I can't get a ticket until all the other ST bands have gone and then scramble in the first non ST band. So Idea 3 but not limited to kids would suit me. It would also stop abuse where most non ST holders work around this problem by "borrowing" a ST holders details.

[The Real Sandhurst Royal]

Looks like some Star members have schemed up some new ideas to suit there needs

# Idea 3 – allow an adult with enough points to buy 2 tickets at the same time, with the other for a ‘linked’ junior member who does not have enough points

# Idea 4 – allow a transfer / donation of some Royalty Points to a member with a lower number of points, so long as the transferor still has more points than the person who gains. This could happen once only per season and during the close season only. (For example Bart has 1800 points and Lisa has 1250 – Bart transfers 260 points so he has 1540 and Lisa has 1510 and now they are likely to be in the same bracket to buy tickets at the same time.)

[Norfolk Royal]

The idea that tickets for one of our games might be sparse appears a bit remote to be honest.

[Moonfish]

# Idea 4 – allow a transfer / donation of some Royalty Points to a member with a lower number of points, so long as the transferor still has more points than the person who gains. This could happen once only per season and during the close season only. (For example Bart has 1800 points and Lisa has 1250 – Bart transfers 260 points so he has 1540 and Lisa has 1510 and now they are likely to be in the same bracket to buy tickets at the same time.)

This is the only idea raised which I wouldn't be comfortable with. As has already been pointed out, if this was to come into existence the person with fewer points being able to attend would seemingly have been given the ability to jump the queue at another persons expense, and this just wouldn't feel fair.

On a similar note, one flaw of the current system is that it is open to leakage, in that people with sufficient points are currently able to buy tickets for matches which they have no intention of attending, to pass or sell onto a third party who may not have sufficient points themselves. Whilst this is often not a problem as we rarely sell out, on the occasions that we do it really isn't fair that loyal supporters face missing out just because somebody has a mate at work who had a spare ticket etc. How we close this loophole I'm note sure, but might be something worth considering as part of your review?

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Home points for attending home games, away points for attending away games.
Two different columns, home points get priority for home games, away points get priority for away games.
Or is that too simple?

[notloyalenuffroyal]

Perhaps we should have "blue members" (so to speak!) and "white members".

Racist

[notloyalenuffroyal]

In a more sensible response than my one above....

There is a fundamental business flaw in royalty points. Royalty points reward loyalty, but a business thrives and expands on new customers, who become repeat customers. Big games attract new customers.

If new customers cannot get tickets due to those with loyalty points getting the tickets then you have no new customer base and they will look elsewhere for their entertainment.

Having said all of this, I have not struggled to get a ticket for a reading game, ever, so I'm not going to fuss.

[Hendo]

But surely loyal customers who have spent time, effort and money should get priority over people who only want to go to the big games.

I wanted to go to arsenal in the league cup at highbury but couldn't because people who only wanted to go because it was a big game got tickets. I had a season ticket of 10 years when that game came around. If the loyalty points had been in place I would have been garurenteed a ticket.

[Twin Lake]

Home points for attending home games, away points for attending away games.
Two different columns, home points get priority for home games, away points get priority for away games.
Or is that too simple?

Came here to say this.

10 home points for attending a home game, 10 away points for attending an away game.

Given the issues with Brentford tickets (and the feeling of injustice from the people who choose to go to away matches over home) this would prevent future issues.

Say we have a Leicester away situation from 2005/06, everyone is going to want to be there.

Day 1: Season Ticket Holders with 2,000 home points (for example) AND supporters with 500 away points (for example).
Day 2: STH with 1,800 home points AND supporters with 400 away points.

This way, season ticket holders still hold a priority. For me, rightly so. If someone has gone to every home game for 10 years, regardless of their away support, they have the right to choose if they want to attend a big away match and not be penalised because they haven't been to many.

However, this now gives those who travel up and down the country supporting the team for the away matches the chance to continue travelling to any away game that they wish. Regardless of the fact that the aways do not provide the club with income, these supporters need to be rewarded.

This way the most loyal of home fans and most loyal of away fans are given priority at the same time.

[notloyalenuffroyal]

But surely loyal customers who have spent time, effort and money should get priority over people who only want to go to the big games.

I wanted to go to arsenal in the league cup at highbury but couldn't because people who only wanted to go because it was a big game got tickets. I had a season ticket of 10 years when that game came around. If the loyalty points had been in place I would have been garurenteed a ticket.

I'm not saying I don't agree with them, just that they make little business sense.

I take my sister as an example. Her first game was the Bolton playoff final. She then started going to the odd game for a few seasons and has now been a season ticket holder for 12 years. The big game enticed her in and the club has benefitted.

Loyalty cards work well with Tesco where there is significant competition. Can we afford to restrict the possibility of a new customer?

[PieEater]

Can we afford to restrict the possibility of a new customer?

Yes if it is at the expense of a long standing loyal customer.

[loyalroyaldaz]

Season ticket holders have first dibs for a longer period and after that its a free for all.
End of. No complications.

[STAR Liaison]

Firstly, thanks for the feedback (more welcome, of course) I was getting worried when there were only 3 responses from the first 300 views!

Here's my feedback:

There's a strong desire for more reward for attending away games. I can't see completely separating home and away royalty points as being practical. The club don't do 'away season tickets' any more but maybe there is a role for a 'certified genuine away supporter' priority for those who go to most away games but might miss out on Brentford or Fulham. But I can't imagine that happens to many people.

I really like the idea of Royalty Point inflation as a way of getting over the expiry issue! What rate of inflation would you propose? One point (ie 10% in the first year, decreasing thereafter) per annum?

The point about big games / new fans is a good one but I think it applies more to Wembley games or big home cup ties where the pressure on tickets is not so great and the new fan should have a reasonable chance of getting in.

Claiming away ticket stubs for cash-on-the-gate is impractical on a regular basis (we asked). Categorising away games by distance likewise - and not everyone starts their journey from RG1. Middlesbrough Royals would be filling their boots.

Closing the loophole of Mr 3000 points passing on his ticket to Mr 500 points doesn't seem practical either - and passing on might be considered as a benefit of having 3000 points (not to be condoned of course). It's a benefit that can only be used once per game.

More comments on the actual 5 ideas in the OP would be appreciated also.

[STAR Liaison]

Looks like some Star members have schemed up some new ideas to suit there needs

# Idea 3 – allow an adult with enough points to buy 2 tickets at the same time, with the other for a ‘linked’ junior member who does not have enough points

# Idea 4 – allow a transfer / donation of some Royalty Points to a member with a lower number of points, so long as the transferor still has more points than the person who gains. This could happen once only per season and during the close season only. (For example Bart has 1800 points and Lisa has 1250 – Bart transfers 260 points so he has 1540 and Lisa has 1510 and now they are likely to be in the same bracket to buy tickets at the same time.)

Absolutely baffled by this.