Football League Referees

[Sutekh]

After the awful referees we've been getting in the league this season thought it'd be worth mentioning, as I can't recall seeing very much about it anywhere, that from next season DIVISION 2/CHAMPIONSHIP level football will see the Football League appointing referees from a pool of 16 professionals.

One presumes this will improve standards a little as it does seem to me that DIVISION 1/PREMIER LEAGUE level referees, while not perfect, are a bit better than those in the FL pool.

Word should be mentioned though that this is no easy gigs for referees who have to consider their positions carefully as it would mean giving up their current jobs for, essentially, a contract position (I believe each referee is only signed up to a one year contract) and so could find himself out of work in 12 months or in a year or two due to the stupid "retire at 47" rule that's enforced on them.

[paultheroyal]

Is refereeing really been that awful, different from any other season? Absolutely not!

All this will do is drive the good referees who are in decent full time employment down the leagues refereeing the likes of Oxford, Swindon and Accrington Stanley whilst the brown nosed referees who have little life outside of football in dead end jobs (who are often the worst refs) will rise to the top and take on the bigger games!

Yep great idea!

[sandman]

We're never wrong and how dare you question us.

[paultheroyal]

We're never wrong and how dare you question us.

Top post that.

[No Fixed Abode]

Is refereeing really been that awful, different from any other season? Absolutely not!

All this will do is drive the good referees who are in decent full time employment down the leagues refereeing the likes of Oxford, Swindon and Accrington Stanley whilst the brown nosed referees who have little life outside of football in dead end jobs (who are often the worst refs) will rise to the top and take on the bigger games!

Yep great idea!

Did anyone notice how Michael Oliver got the very basics wrong in the League Cup Final today? Coutinho equalises. Takes his shirt off = Yellow card. Dives into the crowd = Yellow card. Should have been sent off for two yellows. Poor refereeing.

[paultheroyal]

Is refereeing really been that awful, different from any other season? Absolutely not!

All this will do is drive the good referees who are in decent full time employment down the leagues refereeing the likes of Oxford, Swindon and Accrington Stanley whilst the brown nosed referees who have little life outside of football in dead end jobs (who are often the worst refs) will rise to the top and take on the bigger games!

Yep great idea!

Did anyone notice how Michael Oliver got the very basics wrong in the League Cup Final today? Coutinho equalises. Takes his shirt off = Yellow card. Dives into the crowd = Yellow card. Should have been sent off for two yellows. Poor refereeing.

It doesn't work like that and you know it.

[Sutekh]

Is refereeing really been that awful, different from any other season? Absolutely not!

All this will do is drive the good referees who are in decent full time employment down the leagues refereeing the likes of Oxford, Swindon and Accrington Stanley whilst the brown nosed referees who have little life outside of football in dead end jobs (who are often the worst refs) will rise to the top and take on the bigger games!

Yep great idea!

Did anyone notice how Michael Oliver got the very basics wrong in the League Cup Final today? Coutinho equalises. Takes his shirt off = Yellow card. Dives into the crowd = Yellow card. Should have been sent off for two yellows. Poor refereeing.

It doesn't work like that and you know it.

Just imagine the uproar if a ref actually did that....

[Sanguine]

He did manage to miss Moreno's trip on Aguero, from about 10 feet away.

[No Fixed Abode]

Is refereeing really been that awful, different from any other season? Absolutely not!

All this will do is drive the good referees who are in decent full time employment down the leagues refereeing the likes of Oxford, Swindon and Accrington Stanley whilst the brown nosed referees who have little life outside of football in dead end jobs (who are often the worst refs) will rise to the top and take on the bigger games!

Yep great idea!

Did anyone notice how Michael Oliver got the very basics wrong in the League Cup Final today? Coutinho equalises. Takes his shirt off = Yellow card. Dives into the crowd = Yellow card. Should have been sent off for two yellows. Poor refereeing.

It doesn't work like that and you know it.

But by the FA's own rules they're both yellow card offences. So by the letter of law Coutinho should have been sent off. FWIW Yaya Toure should have been sent off much later in the game for the over the ball challenge on Adam Banana.

[Hoop Blah]

I have to agree with Paul that ref standards are no worse than they've ever been, there's probably a decent argument to say they're at the best they've ever been.

The problem isn't with the refs, it's with the players, managers, media and supporters who all have unrealistic expectations, a lack of understanding of the rules and, on top of that, the ability to scrutinise and debate every decision in a way never seen before.

Refs are on to a hiding to nothing.

[paultheroyal]

Kes behave....

Under premier league guidelines it comes under the bracket of "over celebrating" - it's the one scenario and the one offence.... One yellow warranted the two incidences you mention.

I assume you also wanted yaya toure sent off after the match because he took his shirt off in celebration yeah?

[No Fixed Abode]

Kes behave....

Under premier league guidelines it comes under the bracket of "over celebrating" - it's the one scenario and the one offence.... One yellow warranted the two incidences you mention.

I assume you also wanted yaya toure sent off after the match because he took his shirt off in celebration yeah?

Both do come under over celebrating but both are yellow card offences. Therefore by the letter of the law he should have sent off.

Yaya should have gone for the high tackle on Lallana which I've already explained.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Forestieri's red card was an absolute shocker.

[Sutekh]

Forestieri's red card was an absolute shocker.

Yeah but couldn't have happened to a nicer chap after his disgusting antics for Watford at Wolves last year. K-A-R-M-A !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-trcudJX4GI

[paultheroyal]

Kes behave....

Under premier league guidelines it comes under the bracket of "over celebrating" - it's the one scenario and the one offence.... One yellow warranted the two incidences you mention.

I assume you also wanted yaya toure sent off after the match because he took his shirt off in celebration yeah?

Both do come under over celebrating but both are yellow card offences. Therefore by the letter of the law he should have sent off.

Yaya should have gone for the high tackle on Lallana which I've already explained.

But he didn't so its irrelevant. Should he of been sent off after the match for his penalty celebration? If yes do you agree with that?

Glad you agree about "over celebrating" - its the one incident, so therefore punishable by one offence. Thank you for agreeing and clearing that up.

[No Fixed Abode]

A late tackle comes under the same offence Paul and you can get two yellow cards during the game for that.

[paultheroyal]

A late tackle comes under the same offence Paul and you can get two yellow cards during the game for that.

You don't seem to understand so I will try and make it clear for you my dear friend.

"over celebrating" is the offence - shirt off, jumping in the crown, lifting his shirt up - he could do all 3 in the one celebration but the guidelines state it is to be punished with one yellow card. Hope that helps.

Yaya - sent off after the final whistle?

[Dr_Hfuhruhurr]

I have to agree with Paul that ref standards are no worse than they've ever been, there's probably a decent argument to say they're at the best they've ever been.

The problem isn't with the refs, it's with the players, managers, media and supporters who all have unrealistic expectations, a lack of understanding of the rules and, on top of that, the ability to scrutinise and debate every decision in a way never seen before.

Refs are on to a hiding to nothing.

I disagree. BMac for instance rarely gets stuck into the referees
What I have noticed is a few performances like the Burnley game. A referee who loses control early on because he wants to be seen to be as a negotiator rather than a law enforcer. That game became a shambles as he'd set his stall out and the players knew he was soft. I spent a lot of that game watching the referee talking to people. Not what I've come for. I dont really care if the odd decision is got wrong. I dont subscribe to the theory of 'referees must be consistent' (what does that actually mean), but I do want referees to be braver sometimes. There's a lot of referees in this league that bend under pressure to the fans and the more experienced players.

[Hoop Blah]

That's always been the case though Dr H, it's not a new thing. Refs are just human, they're influenced by a lot of things that go on around them. Always have and always will be.

Burnley was a poor performance from the ref yes, I wouldn't deny that, but we're also looking at it from a Reading fans point of view. If he was that influenced by the likes of Barton he might well have sent of Al Habsie or made them retake the penalty for him being too far off his line when he pulled off the save.

McDermott quite often had a pop at refs once he was under more pressure for results and soundbites in the Premier League. He's just pretty clever at not doing it all the time or dressing it up under the lovely old Brian routine.

[Dr_Hfuhruhurr]

It'd be interesting to see just how quickly referees come to a decision in this league. What annoyed me about HRK getting a card for digging up the spot in the Burnley game was not that he got the card, but just how long it took to give him the card. I have a feeling that whole penalty debacle would have been more efficient in the premiership. I think one of the reasons that this has come up recently is that the Walsall game was much of the same. A 'footballer's headbutt' on Jordan - which the referee sees - and it results in a yellow card. I'm not sure under which law of the game that is a yellow. And the game is scrappy from thereon in. So that's two games in a short space of time with a referee 'bottling it'. I think what I'm arguing with is 'referee's getting better'. I seem to be noticing them more recently.