The beginning of the end?

wolfbagger · by **wolfbagger** » 14 Jul 2006 22:22

Buying Korean players purely to attract big money to the club...

Charging season ticket holders to watch reserve matches...

Clearing out the "yobs" in favour of well-behaved families...

I fear for the future of the club I once loved.

Mr Irascible · by **Mr Irascible** » 15 Jul 2006 01:16

wolfbagger · by **wolfbagger** » 15 Jul 2006 07:11

Mr Irascible wrote:tw@t

I would like to ask you to expand and entertain us with your own opinion regarding the salient points I have made. However, I fear that anything beyond a monosyllabic response would probably seriously test your literary prowess.

In the mean time I'll expand on my own statement. Reading Football Club was once based in the heart of the community, with what seemed like a real desire to entertain and meet the needs of said community.

RFC is now positioned in the middle of a sterile, commercial area with what appears to be the single aim of lining its own pockets with a rapidly decreasing desire to care even one jot about the grass root fans.

I'm sorry if this opinion runs contrary to your own but last time I looked I was still entitled, in a society that extols the right of free speech, to express my thoughts on such matters.

ayjaydee · by **ayjaydee** » 15 Jul 2006 09:20

wolfbagger wrote:
Mr Irascible wrote:tw@t
I would like to ask you to expand and entertain us with your own opinion regarding the salient points I have made. However, I fear that anything beyond a monosyllabic response would probably seriously test your literary prowess.

In the mean time I'll expand on my own statement. Reading Football Club was once based in the heart of the community, with what seemed like a real desire to entertain and meet the needs of said community.

RFC is now positioned in the middle of a sterile, commercial area with what appears to be the single aim of lining its own pockets with a rapidly decreasing desire to care even one jot about the grass root fans.

I'm sorry if this opinion runs contrary to your own but last time I looked I was still entitled, in a society that extols the right of free speech, to express my thoughts on such matters.

I believe the picture painted applies to just about every club in the Prem and a good number in the Champeenship. Like it or not if you want community values you probably need to get down to Scours Lane and watch Reading town. (Not having a go, I tend to agree with your sentiments but, hey ho, I'll settle for a soulless club playing in the Premiership)

Humanistic · by **Humanistic** » 15 Jul 2006 11:16

Do you not then include families as grass roots fans?

wolfbagger · by **wolfbagger** » 15 Jul 2006 11:29

Humanistic wrote:Do you not then include families as grass roots fans?

I take your point but what I meant by that statement was that there appears to be a move away from football being a pastime available to all, and a definite move towards catering for those with significantly more cash in their pockets. This means both families with a considerably higher than average income and the corporate customer. Football is without a doubt increasingly geared up to meet the needs of the latter. You only need to look at the new Wembley stadium design and marketing policies to see very clear evidence for this.

The 17 Bus · by **The 17 Bus** » 15 Jul 2006 12:06

Like the man with a block paved drive I agree with your sentiments WB, however it is not the fault of RFC exclusively, one day football will get a shock, nad money will go elsewhere, however do not expect much to change.

When we get our new foreign owener and Mr Mad makes millions from the sale, expect it to continue.

Alternatively view from the sielines as some have to do.

readingfc_4_life_and_beyo · by **readingfc_4_life_and_beyo** » 15 Jul 2006 12:25

Grass Root fans? I thought we weren't allowed on the pitch. Or did you cheeky things bury yourself when on the pitch after the Derby match?

Humanistic · by **Humanistic** » 15 Jul 2006 12:26

Don't get me wrong WB, I agree with the thrust of what you're saying. I dislike the corporatisation of football as much as anybody. Watching football has become a hugely expensive business and the amount of money washing around at the top end is ridiculous.

However, the issue of encouraging families to come along is the point I wanted to pick up on. I don't think there's anything wrong, per se, with getting more families (and I guess families in this context means parents and young children) involved. Everyone should be encouraged to come along and support their local team.

When I first supporting the Royals at Elm Park, we usually went as a family. The point was that we when we went to EP, we went to watch the football, not just to see the Mascot, get food at every opportunity, ie we didn't go for a 'day out' as many new fans seem to treat it nowadays. We went to support Reading and enjoyed the football. End of.

I think its these casual supporters who go for a 'day out' and the 'occasion' and aren't actually interested in the football that annoy me the most, regardless of age. And I certainly wouldn't begrude any new families interested in football coming along to support the Royals.

The 17 Bus · by **The 17 Bus** » 15 Jul 2006 12:47

how can families afford to go to football?

Humanistic · by **Humanistic** » 15 Jul 2006 12:59

There seem to be plenty of them in the Mad Stad these days!

But, yes, the cost must be prohibitive to many families. As recently as 1994 you could get a family of four in to EP for about £20-£25. That pays for about 2/3 of an adult ticket now. I guess that's why they're pushing reserve games as the new family activity.

weybridgewanderer · by **weybridgewanderer** » 15 Jul 2006 18:54

" there appears to be a move away from football being a pastime available to all, and a definite move towards catering for those with significantly more cash in their pockets."

Welcome to the big time buddy

its been £40 to get into stamford bridge for several years

I guess while you have beeen walking around with your eyes closed over the last few years as top level football became a business rather than a pastime

wolfbagger · by **wolfbagger** » 15 Jul 2006 19:07

weybridgewanderer wrote:" there appears to be a move away from football being a pastime available to all, and a definite move towards catering for those with significantly more cash in their pockets."

Welcome to the big time buddy

its been £40 to get into stamford bridge for several years

I guess while you have beeen walking around with your eyes closed over the last few years as top level football became a business rather than a pastime

I'm sure you're very proud of that smartarse answer young man but if you'd opened your eyes you'd have noticed this is posted in club policies and therefore specifically about Reading Football Club rather than the footballing world in general.

Jimbo · by **Jimbo** » 15 Jul 2006 19:31

wolfbagger wrote:there appears to be a move away from football being a pastime available to all, and a definite move towards catering for those with significantly more cash in their pockets.

wolfbagger wrote:I'm sure you're very proud of that smartarse answer young man but if you'd opened your eyes you'd have noticed this is posted in club policies and therefore specifically about Reading Football Club rather than the footballing world in general.

You're the one who mentioned the football world in general, so don't get all upset when someone shoots you down.

Keep this to yourself, but Reading Football Club is, in fact, part of the football world. Shhhhh, don't tell anyone.

Oh, and good observation on the whole "football's about the money" thing. I'd hadn't realised until now.

wolfbagger · by **wolfbagger** » 15 Jul 2006 20:13

Jimbo wrote:
wolfbagger wrote:there appears to be a move away from football being a pastime available to all, and a definite move towards catering for those with significantly more cash in their pockets.

wolfbagger wrote:I'm sure you're very proud of that smartarse answer young man but if you'd opened your eyes you'd have noticed this is posted in club policies and therefore specifically about Reading Football Club rather than the footballing world in general.
You're the one who mentioned the football world in general, so don't get all upset when someone shoots you down.

Keep this to yourself, but Reading Football Club is, in fact, part of the football world. Shhhhh, don't tell anyone.

Oh, and good observation on the whole "football's about the money" thing. I'd hadn't realised until now.

Well done, you too have completely failed to see my point. RFC as a result of its new found premiership status is only now entering into this rather unpleasant world where politely applauding executives are encouraged and the traditional supporter shunned.

bobby1413 · by **bobby1413** » 15 Jul 2006 21:07

wolfbagger wrote:
Jimbo wrote:
wolfbagger wrote:there appears to be a move away from football being a pastime available to all, and a definite move towards catering for those with significantly more cash in their pockets.

wolfbagger wrote:I'm sure you're very proud of that smartarse answer young man but if you'd opened your eyes you'd have noticed this is posted in club policies and therefore specifically about Reading Football Club rather than the footballing world in general.
You're the one who mentioned the football world in general, so don't get all upset when someone shoots you down.

Keep this to yourself, but Reading Football Club is, in fact, part of the football world. Shhhhh, don't tell anyone.

Oh, and good observation on the whole "football's about the money" thing. I'd hadn't realised until now.
Well done, you too have completely failed to see my point. RFC as a result of its new found premiership status is only now entering into this rather unpleasant world where politely applauding executives are encouraged and the traditional supporter shunned.

Wolfbadger, you are right, RFC are chasing the money. The reason being they are in the modern world of premiership football now. As many have said, they would rather have a season ticket supporter who is paying to watch Manure and Arsenal than a supporter who has followed the club for 30 years and can only afford to go to a few games.

ayjaydee wrote: I believe the picture painted applies to just about every club in the Prem and a good number in the Champeenship. Like it or not if you want community values you probably need to get down to Scours Lane and watch Reading town. (Not having a go, I tend to agree with your sentiments but, hey ho, I'll settle for a soulless club playing in the Premiership)

That is a good post, and completely true. I'm afraid that any club in the higher leagues, championship and the premiership even more is going to be going for money as that is what the modern footballing world is all about.

Rev Algenon Stickleback H · by **Rev Algenon Stickleback H** » 15 Jul 2006 21:12

wolfbagger wrote:Buying Korean players purely to attract big money to the club...

you don't perhaps think he might have been signed to boost the squad play then? It's not as if we've signed the pin-up boy of Korean football.

Charging season ticket holders to watch reserve matches...

and how many reserve games did you go along to last season?

Clearing out the "yobs" in favour of well-behaved families...

when has the club ever not "cleared out the yobs"? Was there some era when yobs were welcomed with open arms? One of the first Reading programmes I bought had Ian Branfoot making a rare break from his usual programme script to speak out against yobs on the south bank, saying how they weren't wanted at the club.

Yobs have always been a tiny minority at Reading, and none of the other fans have ever taken stock and thought "you know what? Our crowds may have risen 500% since the early 90s, but what we really need is some more yobs. No football atmosphere is complete without groups of burberry-capped morons bravely shouting "come on then" at fans sat 50 yards aways behind a row of policemen. That's the kind of thing that makes going to football special."

Rev Algenon Stickleback H · by **Rev Algenon Stickleback H** » 15 Jul 2006 21:25

bobby1413 wrote: As many have said, they would rather have a season ticket supporter who is paying to watch Manure and Arsenal than a supporter who has followed the club for 30 years and can only afford to go to a few games.

I say bollocks. There's nothing at all to support the claim that they'd prefer that.

Sure, they'd prefer fans to have season tickets, but when has that ever not been the case?

There's also nothing to suggest that fans who've gone for a long time are less able to afford season tickets than newer fans.

I'm sure, given the choice, they'd love to have those who can't afford a season ticket to be able to pay on the day for certain games, but until the Madejski gets its mythical extra 10,000 seats, that's not going to happen.
If we sell season tickets then the ground will be sold out all season.
If we made it "like the old days" with everyone paying on the day, if they wished, crowds (and income) would be much lower.

And no, it wouldn't just be the new fans turning their back on the club in difficult times. Anyone who went in the era of supposedly "loyal" supporters 15-20 years ago could tell you just how empty the south bank got in leaner times. If we slumped, so did the crowds.

wolfbagger · by **wolfbagger** » 15 Jul 2006 21:33

Rev Algenon Stickleback H wrote:
wolfbagger wrote:Buying Korean players purely to attract big money to the club...
you don't perhaps think he might have been signed to boost the squad play then? It's not as if we've signed the pin-up boy of Korean football.

Mr. Madejski himself has admitted as much. See the Guardian article alluded to in another thread.

Rev Algenon Stickleback H wrote:
wolfbagger wrote:Charging season ticket holders to watch reserve matches...
and how many reserve games did you go along to last season?

As I am retired I have been fortunate enough to have the time on my hands to see in excess of 50% of the reserve games this season. I may no longer be able to do so as I am already struggling to find the additional funds for my season ticket.

Rev Algenon Stickleback H wrote:
wolfbagger wrote: Clearing out the "yobs" in favour of well-behaved families...
when has the club ever not "cleared out the yobs"? Was there some era when yobs were welcomed with open arms? One of the first Reading programmes I bought had Ian Branfoot making a rare break from his usual programme script to speak out against yobs on the south bank, saying how they weren't wanted at the club.

Yobs have always been a tiny minority at Reading, and none of the other fans have ever taken stock and thought "you know what? Our crowds may have risen 500% since the early 90s, but what we really need is some more yobs. No football atmosphere is complete without groups of burberry-capped morons bravely shouting "come on then" at fans sat 50 yards aways behind a row of policemen. That's the kind of thing that makes going to football special."

Perhaps I'm wrong on this one but my impression of late has been that the club are coming down very hard on any behaviour that goes beyond clapping politely and waving one's prawn sandwich.

weybridgewanderer · by **weybridgewanderer** » 15 Jul 2006 22:13

wolfbagger wrote:
weybridgewanderer wrote:" there appears to be a move away from football being a pastime available to all, and a definite move towards catering for those with significantly more cash in their pockets."

Welcome to the big time buddy

its been £40 to get into stamford bridge for several years

I guess while you have beeen walking around with your eyes closed over the last few years as top level football became a business rather than a pastime
I'm sure you're very proud of that smartarse answer young man but if you'd opened your eyes you'd have noticed this is posted in club policies and therefore specifically about Reading Football Club rather than the footballing world in general.

what did you think would happen when we were successful? did you really not understand what the price of that success would be? have you not seen whats been happening in the top tier of english football while we have been playing wrexham and brentford?

All the "loyal and faithful" players would carry on playing for £500 quid a week?

As with any industry, people want ta share of the rewards for success.

we had a choice 16 years ago, continue to chase the dream of success or sell up, move to didcot and call ourselves thames valley royals

we chased the dream, unfortunately the next phase of that dream is going to cost, and cost big time

so we have another choice

pay up or give up