Independent FootballConsultants

sucatraps · by **sucatraps** » 04 Dec 2007 09:59

Lots of rumours around at present, some good some bad. As a matter of fact and not rumour, many business's employ consultants to evaluate and advise them about performance improvement. Why not employ Roy Hodgson or Terry Venables to run an experienced eye over the club and submit a report for SC's and JM's consideration. We are always being told that football is a business like any other, so why not employ good business practise without panic, histronics or suspicion by current employees. After all it would be for the benefit of the club and should be welcomed by all concerned?

AF1 · by **AF1** » 04 Dec 2007 10:04

And breathe...

Vision · by **Vision** » 04 Dec 2007 10:06

sucatraps wrote:Lots of rumours around at present, some good some bad. As a matter of fact and not rumour, many business's employ consultants to evaluate and advise them about performance improvement. Why not employ Roy Hodgson or Terry Venables to run an experienced eye over the club and submit a report for SC's and JM's consideration. We are always being told that football is a business like any other, so why not employ good business practise without panic, histronics or suspicion by current employees. After all it would be for the benefit of the club and should be welcomed by all concerned?

I'm sure you've got a good point but LOL at Terry Venables and good business practise(sic) mentioned in the same paragraph.

Huntley & Palmer · by **Huntley & Palmer** » 04 Dec 2007 10:11

We already have Hammond and Coppell is not exactly lacking in experience. It can also go horribly wrong, like with Jol and Mourinho being undermined by their respective technical directors

Dirk Gently · by **Dirk Gently** » 04 Dec 2007 10:14

The way the club is structured and run is the envy of many other clubs, so what would the likes of these people add? What do you think is actually wrong with the business model at RFC?

And certainly not the likes of Venables - looking at the way the business functions????

- he couldn't even run a nightclub sucessfully!

And if you're talking about player choices, that's completely subjective so would you really want another manager coming in and undermining SC?

Gordons Cumming · by **Gordons Cumming** » 04 Dec 2007 10:27

I'm afraid that is a silly idea.

Smoking Kills Dancing Doe · by **Smoking Kills Dancing Doe** » 04 Dec 2007 10:49

The club did this a couple of seasons ago.

They used a management consultant company rather than El Tel though.

sucatraps · by **sucatraps** » 04 Dec 2007 11:01

Err, taking a broader view, forget about particular individuals and that it must fail, or undermine existing situation or people SC NH etc and the fans all having their two pennyworth as untested "experts" bandied around. It's a good job the medical profession doesn't think they are above using real experts and as for "silly idea" what else have you got by way of constructive assistance, given that the situation is so "perilous" and with the manager considering his options etc etc etc. Why wait until things are desperate before doing anything, just the way this country fell behind in almost everything before waking up to the idea of change being healthy and progress being inevitable!

Dirk Gently · by **Dirk Gently** » 04 Dec 2007 11:25

What is it exactly you're suggesting, then? You say :

We are always being told that football is a business like any other, so why not employ good business practise without panic, histronics or suspicion by current employees

and then you talk about

Roy Hodgson or Terry Venables

That doesn't make any sense, I'm afraid.

Business-wise there's nothing wrong with RFC - they are the envy of many other clubs business-wise.

So are you talking about bringing in football people to look at the football side? Because that's something quite different, and all that could do would be to undermine SC.

loyalroyal4life · by **loyalroyal4life** » 04 Dec 2007 12:07

is this not sort of nick hammonds job?

sucatraps · by **sucatraps** » 04 Dec 2007 12:09

Football is a business, consultants are widely used in business, financial, technical, motivational, sales, etc. TV and RH are acknowledged experts in their field ie: the playing of football. What I'm suggesting is to exclude nothing that could help bring success to our football club after carefully evaluating the action under consideration. SC NH should not fear external reporting or evaluation. I'm not suggesting bringing in a "new manager under the guise of football director" or whatever other clubs do, but impetus, motivation and evaluation of your "business" is a good thing not an evil thing necessarily, it's the attitude that counts. Sir Clive Woodward and Will Carling are two more examples of how motivational improvements after evaluational, (consultancy) can bring success. Any clearer?

pooandwee · by **pooandwee** » 04 Dec 2007 12:24

Terry Venables lol. Nick Leeson perhaps?

Dirk Gently · by **Dirk Gently** » 04 Dec 2007 12:38

sucatraps wrote:Football is a business, consultants are widely used in business, financial, technical, motivational, sales, etc. TV and RH are acknowledged experts in their field ie: the playing of football. What I'm suggesting is to exclude nothing that could help bring success to our football club after carefully evaluating the action under consideration. SC NH should not fear external reporting or evaluation. I'm not suggesting bringing in a "new manager under the guise of football director" or whatever other clubs do, but impetus, motivation and evaluation of your "business" is a good thing not an evil thing necessarily, it's the attitude that counts. Sir Clive Woodward and Will Carling are two more examples of how motivational improvements after evaluational, (consultancy) can bring success. Any clearer?

Perfectly clear - but still perfectly clear that you think that there are problems with the business side of Reading FC - whereas the exact opposite is true! They are making masses of money, they have never been in administration or even close to it. So from a "business success" point of view what problem is it exactly that you are trying to solve?

Now, the football side is a different matter - but there is no way to guarantee football success, no matter who you bring in, and indeed there are a wide variety of different theories on how to do this. Bringing in a external "football expert" who would have a different approach to the problems would only case chaos, because almost certainly their approach that they'd recommend would be a different one to SC's approach.

What would you like to happen then? Back SC? - in which case there's no gain! Back the consultants? - in which case you lose SC! Or try both at the same time - in which case there's inevitable pain and confusion.

By the way (as you clearly don't know) - Reading FC already employ motivational consultants - a company called Catalyst - and they have done for several seasons.

Tinrib · by **Tinrib** » 04 Dec 2007 12:38

sucatraps wrote:Football is a business, consultants are widely used in business, financial, technical, motivational, sales, etc. TV and RH are acknowledged experts in their field ie: the playing of football. What I'm suggesting is to exclude nothing that could help bring success to our football club after carefully evaluating the action under consideration. SC NH should not fear external reporting or evaluation. I'm not suggesting bringing in a "new manager under the guise of football director" or whatever other clubs do, but impetus, motivation and evaluation of your "business" is a good thing not an evil thing necessarily, it's the attitude that counts. Sir Clive Woodward and Will Carling are two more examples of how motivational improvements after evaluational, (consultancy) can bring success. Any clearer?

I remember Sir Clive at Southampton a couple of years ago...

sucatraps · by **sucatraps** » 04 Dec 2007 12:39

pooandwee wrote:Terry Venables lol. Nick Leeson perhaps?

Oh yeah, I see what you've done, ironical humour, well done!

sucatraps · by **sucatraps** » 04 Dec 2007 12:45

Ok, ok, I give up, white flag raised and bowing to everybody else's superior knowledge. Lets do nothing, and if we go to hell in a handcart, we can all sing jingle bells en route!

Schards#2 · by **Schards#2** » 04 Dec 2007 12:52

sucatraps wrote:Ok, ok, I give up, white flag raised and bowing to everybody else's superior knowledge. Lets do nothing, and if we go to hell in a handcart, we can all sing jingle bells en route!

Why would we go to hell in a handcart if we don't do anything? We're one of the few clubs returning a profit at the moment.

sucatraps · by **sucatraps** » 04 Dec 2007 12:57

IF, is what I said and IF is what I meant, failure to address problems at the earliest opportunity usually results in failure. The trend in our football peformances is poor and becoming poorer. IF we finish in the bottom 3 we will be relegated, that to me is a hellish proposition!

Dirk Gently · by **Dirk Gently** » 04 Dec 2007 13:20

sucatraps wrote:IF, is what I said and IF is what I meant, failure to address problems at the earliest opportunity usually results in failure. The trend in our football peformances is poor and becoming poorer. IF we finish in the bottom 3 we will be relegated, that to me is a hellish proposition!

If your only success criteria are what happens on the field then you're corect.

But I thought you were more interested in the club being run as a business? In which case if we are relegated we'll survive financially and continue to prosper.

The real question is should lots of money be thrown at players to improve the playing staff? Everyone, I think, would say "yes" - so all that needs discussing is just how much that should be and how we ensure we get value from it.

RoyalBlue · by **RoyalBlue** » 04 Dec 2007 13:28

Dirk Gently wrote:The way the club is structured and run is the envy of many other clubs, so what would the likes of these people add? What do you think is actually wrong with the business model at RFC?

I work for a very successful company and our business model is the envy of many. It still doesn't stop us using external consultants/experts who can take a look at things from an independent and detached view, give us a quick health check and hopefully help us become even more successful.

Yes, consultants can charge you to borrow your watch and then tell you the time but, on occasions, they sometimes point out very useful functions that you weren't even aware existed on that watch!