RFC finances - The Facts

[Jerry St Clair]

Er, I don't know themm. But, can someone with a better grasp of accountancy than I have a stab at establishing:

1) Approximately how much money John Madejski has leant RFC over the years?
2) How much of these loans remain to be repaid?
3) Approximately how much money has John Madejski given to RFC since 1990?
4) What is the club's current income v expenditure?

There are lots of emotion driven sweeping statements being chucked around on this board at the moment, but as far as I can see no-one has attemtped to grasp the club's actual financial position.

[Deathy]

[07RFC]

it all makes complete sense now

[Deathy]

If you run out of fingers, ask mummy for help.

There's bits and bobs all over the forum. It's some figures.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Does not mean a lot but in those 3 years accounts we took in £20, 410,369 fro players sold, and spent £6, 360 022, almost a £14 mill profit overall on players in and out.

[STAR Liaison]

Does not mean a lot but in those 3 years accounts we took in £20, 410,369 fro players sold, and spent £6, 360 022, almost a £14 mill profit overall on players in and out.

I think you have your additions and disposals the wrong way round, additions is player in and disposals players out so it is £14 mill loss not profit.

I need to look out the accounts I have as my recollection was a £12 million loss in 2005/06 not £6 mill but even so the net profit on these figures is £2.3 mill (6.7+6.5-6.4-4.5).

The other details in the accounts not in straps figures is the expenditure on fixed assets - the improvements at Hogwood (a benefit to the playing staff if not to us) and to the stadium (press centre and hotel extension as these are the consolidated figures) the figure in the 2008 accounts is a £6.7 mill increase in fixed assets.

If I get time I will look out more details from older accounts but from the top of my head the answers are:
a) £25 mill now it has been higher but he converted some loan to shares so the loan changes from repayable on demand to only when the shares are sold (assuming they do not disappear with administration etc). STAR has been told that the loan has not been repaid lately but it has also not increased since promotion.
b) £25 mill
c) nothing except in buying shares as above but that is not really giving.
d) no-one on here know the current situation. The accounting year is to June and the accounts are published for the AGM usually in December so the most up-to-date info is to June 2008 and we have to wait to December to get June 2009 and December 2010 to get info on the sales of Doyler, Hunty, Bikey etc.

HTH

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Does not mean a lot but in those 3 years accounts we took in £20, 410,369 fro players sold, and spent £6, 360 022, almost a £14 mill profit overall on players in and out.

I think you have your additions and disposals the wrong way round, additions is player in and disposals players out so it is £14 mill loss not profit.


HTH

I may have meant to say that, who knows or cares , however this wine is goiung down well here.

[Royal Lady]

Where do you get £25 million from?

The accounts that Strap showed, gave a £6 million loan to RFC and a £17 million loan to the hotel (which annoys me anyway, as we really shouldn't have hotel accounts lumped in with football club ones imo) so that makes approx £23 million, I simply cannot believe that we have not repaid ANYTHING back to him.

[Wycombe Royal]

Where do you get £25 million from?

The accounts that Strap showed, gave a £6 million loan to RFC and a £17 million loan to the hotel (which annoys me anyway, as we really shouldn't have hotel accounts lumped in with football club ones imo) so that makes approx £23 million, I simply cannot believe that we have not repaid ANYTHING back to him.

It has the word "Consolidated" in there so these are the group accounts and not just the football club.

[Jerry St Clair]

d) no-one on here know the current situation. The accounting year is to June and the accounts are published for the AGM usually in December so the most up-to-date info is to June 2008 and we have to wait to December to get June 2009 and December 2010 to get info on the sales of Doyler, Hunty, Bikey etc.

And they will be fascinating.

But, thus far, our chairman has leant approx £25m to a business that for, say, 15 years out of his 19 in charge, has been loss-making. If he did it to make money, that's a hell of a speculation for a, frankly, pretty shit return.

I still don't understand the accusations being levelled at Madejski. The facts are that he's leant a huge amount of maoney and taken nothing, other than shares, out. With cash in the RFC bank account, he's seem to be perfectly entitled to begin demanding repayment of his loans. But, it doesn't seem he has.

[STAR Liaison]

Where do you get £25 million from?

The accounts that Strap showed, gave a £6 million loan to RFC and a £17 million loan to the hotel (which annoys me anyway, as we really shouldn't have hotel accounts lumped in with football club ones imo) so that makes approx £23 million, I simply cannot believe that we have not repaid ANYTHING back to him.

Chairmans loan to RFC 8760649
Chairmans loan to Madejski stadium hotel 17082589

Sorry but am not sure where you have found £6 million.

[Royal Lady]

I was looking on the wrong line.

I don't mean to harp on about this, but showing accounts (consolidated or whatever they are) INC the hotel don't give the full picture - I want to know how the Football Club stands with regards to profit/loss etc.

Again, I really don't understand accounts, but being very simplistic - how can we have made a LOSS on transfers out?

[Platypuss]

I was looking on the wrong line.

I don't mean to harp on about this, but showing accounts (consolidated or whatever they are) INC the hotel don't give the full picture - I want to know how the Football Club stands with regards to profit/loss etc.

Again, I really don't understand accounts, but being very simplistic - how can we have made a LOSS on transfers out?

Because the figures are only up to June 2008?

[Deathy]

I still don't understand the accusations being levelled at Madejski. The facts are that he's leant a huge amount of maoney and taken nothing, other than shares, out. With cash in the RFC bank account, he's seem to be perfectly entitled to begin demanding repayment of his loans. But, it doesn't seem he has.

Of course he is, but at such a vast scale? The team still needs investment, and without it his club could drop down another division and become even less appealing to perspective buyers, and of course, be worth even less.

[Royal Lady]

I was looking on the wrong line.

I don't mean to harp on about this, but showing accounts (consolidated or whatever they are) INC the hotel don't give the full picture - I want to know how the Football Club stands with regards to profit/loss etc.

Again, I really don't understand accounts, but being very simplistic - how can we have made a LOSS on transfers out?

Because the figures are only up to June 2008?

Who did we buy and sell up to June 2008 then? I still can't believe we made a loss on transfers in that season.

[Deathy]

I was looking on the wrong line.

I don't mean to harp on about this, but showing accounts (consolidated or whatever they are) INC the hotel don't give the full picture - I want to know how the Football Club stands with regards to profit/loss etc.

Again, I really don't understand accounts, but being very simplistic - how can we have made a LOSS on transfers out?

Because the figures are only up to June 2008?

Who did we buy and sell up to June 2008 then? I still can't believe we made a loss on transfers in that season.

If the sales of Shorey and Kitson were after June 08, then I can.

[Royal Lady]

I can't remember who we brought in and who we sold up to June 2008 tbf. I just seem to remember that our transfer dealings have always seemed to bring in more money than we've paid out.

[Wimb]

I can't remember who we brought in and who we sold up to June 2008 tbf. I just seem to remember that our transfer dealings have always seemed to bring in more money than we've paid out.

We bought Marek, Fae, Cisse, Kebe so about 5 million(?)iirc and only sold Halford (£3mill?) whilst swapping Rosie for Seol.

Forgive me if I'm missing anyone out there!

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

In reality the transfer figures do not add up to one season at all, the promotion clauses will have kicked in and added a bit, and also the clauses should we not get relegatted, add that fees are not paid in lump sums anyway and the figures will not be just for aparticular year or season, only the cost for that year, I am surprised that we talk about spending £17m plus for transfers in out two years in the Prem!!, never felt like it at all.

[I was there at Elm Park]

I don't know where those figures came from but if true then they make very interesting reading. Taking a huge estimate but lets says that our turnover before transfers last year was slightly bigger than 05/06 but our operating expenses were also more then it becomes clear that the trasnfer money from last year probably only covered the loss we made that financial year. I expect it will be the same this year which means that the question is where the parachute money went? With £42 million debt including nearly £20 million that we seem to owe the chairman then to be honest I'd happy if the club spent all of last year's clearing some of that debt. If Madejski went tomorrow then you to have worry that we'd be in a serious financial mess and that administration could be a worry. Saying that I've probably read all the figures completely wrong.