Are the accounts due???

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Was just wondering as Sheff U released theirs,and made a profit!!!!

http://www.thestar.co.uk/sportheadlines ... 5859769.jp

Interesting that their wage budget is £12m odd, almost the same as ours when we went up in 05/6, now historically they have been good payers at this level, i am trying to work out if we must have been overpaying that season, or how they can afford players like Harper, Kilgannon on a budget of £12m yet we cant??

[Vision]

Was just wondering as Sheff U released theirs,and made a profit!!!!

http://www.thestar.co.uk/sportheadlines ... 5859769.jp

Interesting that their wage budget is £12m odd, almost the same as ours when we went up in 05/6, now historically they have been good payers at this level, i am trying to work out if we must have been overpaying that season, or how they can afford players like Harper, Kilgannon on a budget of £12m yet we cant??

Don't know if its included in this set of accounts but an extra 20m in compensation for the Tevez fiasco certainly helps.

Also they've cashed in on a few assets such as Beattie last January . Match day turnover will be amongst the biggest in the division as well I'd imagine.

McCabe is right though I suspect in that, the 3 sides relegated from the Premiership aside, I'd guess a 12m wage bill is amongst the highest in this division.

[Wycombe Royal]

THe £12m is the budset set for wages for this season, the wages in their latest accounts is £15.7m.

As well as Beattie, they also sold Walker and Naughton to Spurs for around £8m.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

looks to me that they had a turnover of £30m ish, and made £5+m on that.

Now they have a wages budget of £12m for this season, so could well make another profit. Not sure where the West Ham money appears, as they will have had parachute last season of £11m plus other income, so looks like the WHU money is not there yet, though some of it may well be.

[Sun Tzu]

looks to me that they had a turnover of £30m ish, and made £5+m on that.

Now they have a wages budget of £12m for this season, so could well make another profit. Not sure where the West Ham money appears, as they will have had parachute last season of £11m plus other income, so looks like the WHU money is not there yet, though some of it may well be.

Wasn;t it being paid in instalments over something like 4 or 5 years ?

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

could well be that the profit is the money from WHU, still a good show tho.

[Wycombe Royal]

looks to me that they had a turnover of £30m ish, and made £5+m on that.

Now they have a wages budget of £12m for this season, so could well make another profit. Not sure where the West Ham money appears, as they will have had parachute last season of £11m plus other income, so looks like the WHU money is not there yet, though some of it may well be.

Wasn;t it being paid in instalments over something like 4 or 5 years ?

The agreement was understood that West Ham have agreed to pay Sheffield United £15m over five years, with an extra bond of £5m payable in the event of the club being sold within a certain time period.

[Terminal Boardom]

But we are a well run club

Has anyone else noticed that the amount of money owed by the PL clubs in loans, overdrafts etc amounts to £3.1 BILLION? I have not heard of too many banks calling in those loans... says he expecting the reams of abuse from the usual suspects.

[Thaumagurist*]

But we are a well run club

Has anyone else noticed that the amount of money owed by the PL clubs in loans, overdrafts etc amounts to £3.1 BILLION? I have not heard of too many banks calling in those loans... says he expecting the reams of abuse from the usual suspects.

Maybe they have called in those loans and have been ignored.

[Dirk Gently]

But we are a well run club

Has anyone else noticed that the amount of money owed by the PL clubs in loans, overdrafts etc amounts to £3.1 BILLION? I have not heard of too many banks calling in those loans... says he expecting the reams of abuse from the usual suspects.

The biggest creditors in English football (aggregated debt) are club owners - they might not be calling in their debts but it begs the question why, if they are never planning to call debts in, do they allow their money to sit on the books as debt, rather than just giving the money.

For many of them though, the debts are so big that they know that if they called them in the club would cease to exist and they'd get something stupid like 2-3% of the debt back. That doesn't make those debts any less onerous on the clubs. Also, owners move on, die or go bust, then that debt gets passed on to someone who might not be so concerned about the club's future.

The second biggest aggregate creditor in English Football is HMRC - they certainly are calling in their debts, as shown by the number of clubs who've failed over tax bills. Also, the Football League's new rules on disclosure of clubs' tax affairs, implemented this July, mean that all FL clubs with tax debts won't be able to string them out any longer.

[Wycombe Royal]

But we are a well run club

Has anyone else noticed that the amount of money owed by the PL clubs in loans, overdrafts etc amounts to £3.1 BILLION?

The overdrafts are probably a very small percentage of that so it wouldn't have made the news if they had been.

[Sun Tzu]

And much like any news of overdrafts being called in at Reading has hardly been headline news even in the news starved Evening Post I would imagine similar situations in say Derby, Plymouth or Carlisle would have struggled to find room in the press amongst more interesting stuff !

[Dirk Gently]

But we are a well run club

Has anyone else noticed that the amount of money owed by the PL clubs in loans, overdrafts etc amounts to £3.1 BILLION?

The overdrafts are probably a very small percentage of that so it wouldn't have made the news if they had been.

Indeed.

Large sums that make up this total debt include :
- £746m owed by the Glazers to purchase Man Utd ("leveraged finance" from various US finance companies)
- £350m owed for the purchase of Liverpool (this is bank loan but if it was called in they'd cease to exist)
- £262m owed by Arsenal (£153 m stadium construction costs)
Another £1.2bn of this is non-interest bearing "soft loans" from club owners.

But really, no sensible banker calls in loans that size as they'd force the club under - but it's easy to call in our £7 bank loan as we had PL money available to pay it off and the bank would get all of it.

Just watch Hull implode if they go down - they have a financial black hole of £23m at the end of this season......

[Terminal Boardom]

But we are a well run club

Has anyone else noticed that the amount of money owed by the PL clubs in loans, overdrafts etc amounts to £3.1 BILLION?

The overdrafts are probably a very small percentage of that so it wouldn't have made the news if they had been.

Indeed.

Large sums that make up this total debt include :
- £746m owed by the Glazers to purchase Man Utd ("leveraged finance" from various US finance companies)
- £350m owed for the purchase of Liverpool (this is bank loan but if it was called in they'd cease to exist)
- £262m owed by Arsenal (£153 m stadium construction costs)
Another £1.2bn of this is non-interest bearing "soft loans" from club owners.

But really, no sensible banker calls in loans that size as they'd force the club under - but it's easy to call in our £7 bank loan as we had PL money available to pay it off and the bank would get all of it.

Just watch Hull implode if they go down - they have a financial black hole of £23m at the end of this season......

And Hull have the 7th highest wage bill in the PL. Makes you wonder what the business case looks like...

This shows the folly of the PL. Do we REALLY want to go there again? I would prefer a financially stable club living within our means and if that means slipping down the leagues then sobeit.

[Sir Rodger Doyle]

But we are a well run club

Has anyone else noticed that the amount of money owed by the PL clubs in loans, overdrafts etc amounts to £3.1 BILLION? I have not heard of too many banks calling in those loans... says he expecting the reams of abuse from the usual suspects.

I cannot believe that the bank called in an overdraft. If the overdraft was agreed and being serviced it's surely not be in the banks interest to recall any debt. There could be a number of reasons for this debt/loan being repaid. (I know it's all guesswork, but here goes)

1. The debt was repaid in order to clear any monies owed to outside parties before the club is sold.

2. The debt was an agreed short term loan taken out by the club to finance a major cost. ie player purchases.

3. The debt was an agreed short term loan to cover a planned cost. ie hotel extension.

4. The club had an agreed overdraft and the bank decided to call it in for some reason.

[westendgirl]

I cannot believe that the bank called in an overdraft. If the overdraft was agreed and being serviced it's surely not be in the banks interest to recall any debt. There could be a number of reasons for this debt/loan being repaid. (I know it's all guesswork, but here goes)

1. The debt was repaid in order to clear any monies owed to outside parties before the club is sold.

2. The debt was an agreed short term loan taken out by the club to finance a major cost. ie player purchases.

3. The debt was an agreed short term loan to cover a planned cost. ie hotel extension.

4. The club had an agreed overdraft and the bank decided to call it in for some reason.

I would say you do not have much experience of business at the moment if you cannot believe the bank called in the overdraft.

There are plenty of examples of businesses finding that their overdraft is no longer seen to be in the bank's interest, and the fact that many people have assumed for years that an overdraft will last forever if you keep servincing it does not stop it be a facility that can be recalled with little notice.

Also can you explain

I cannot believe that the bank called in an overdraft.

and

4. The club had an agreed overdraft and the bank decided to call it in for some reason.

? Seems to me a slight contradiction.

[Mike Hunt]

This shows the folly of the PL. Do we REALLY want to go there again? I would prefer a financially stable club living within our means and if that means slipping down the leagues then sobeit.

I agree TB.

I would rather have Reading living within our means, than to be like Hull - jeez I feel sorry for their fans when the wheels fall off...

But I also don't want do a Leeds/Norwich/Southampton - without spending the money....

[Sir Rodger Doyle]

Also can you explain
Sir Rodger Doyle wrote:
"I cannot believe that the bank called in an overdraft." and
Sir Rodger Doyle wrote:
4. The club had an agreed overdraft and the bank decided to call it in for some reason.?

Seems to me a slight contradiction.

I cannot believe that the bank called in an overdraft.

I (in this case it refers to the first person singular being myself) cannot believe (a statement of fact is not recognised as such without definite indisputable proof) that the bank (a business that strives to make profits from monetary investment through the use of interest payable to creditors and conversely by debtors) called in an overdraft. (cancelled a financial agreement with a business that had a profound effect on that business' ability to compete within its market place).

4. The club had an agreed overdraft and the bank decided to call it in for some reason.?

While I do not personally believe that such an action was taken by the bank, I also accept that such an action could have taken place. This is why I have included it in the list of what I believe to be the possible reasons behind the clubs repayment of this substantial amount of money.

[Sir Rodger Doyle]

This shows the folly of the PL. Do we REALLY want to go there again? I would prefer a financially stable club living within our means and if that means slipping down the leagues then sobeit.

I agree TB.

I would rather have Reading living within our means, than to be like Hull - jeez I feel sorry for their fans when the wheels fall off...

But I also don't want do a Leeds/Norwich/Southampton - without spending the money....

Yep, I agree.
Do any clubs in the Premier league live within their means?

[Mike Hunt]

This shows the folly of the PL. Do we REALLY want to go there again? I would prefer a financially stable club living within our means and if that means slipping down the leagues then sobeit.

I agree TB.

I would rather have Reading living within our means, than to be like Hull - jeez I feel sorry for their fans when the wheels fall off...

But I also don't want do a Leeds/Norwich/Southampton - without spending the money....

Yep, I agree.
Do any clubs in the Premier league live within their means?

Some do...

wouldn't it depend on how deep the owners pockets are ?